11:05 Thin Lizzie
Supernatural Season 11, Episode 5 "Thin Lizzy" is not about one of the greatest bands to come out of Dublin, but about the Lizzie Borden Bed and Breakfast Museum, and what Sam and Dean find inside. Did you know that Lizzie was also descended from Elizabeth Morse, who was convicted of witchcraft in Colonial Massachusetts before the Salem Witch Trials? You will if you listen to this episode.
Research Links
- Nancy Won - Super-wiki
- The Witchcraft Trial of Elizabeth Morse of Newbury, 1680 – Historic Ipswich
- A sketch of the history of Newbury, Newburyport, and West Newbury, from 1635 to 1845 : Coffin, Joshua, 1792-1864 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
- The Elusive John Morse – The Hatchet: A Journal of Lizzie Borden & Victorian America
- Records and Files of the Quarterly Courts of Essex County
- A Guide to the Court Records of Early Massachusetts - Colonial Society of Massachusetts
- The First New England Witch -- Willard H. Morse, M. D.
- D2213-2 Elizabeth_Morse_Witch_of_Newbury.pdf
- Elizabeth Morse Witch Trials from Actual Town Records of the Time | Memories on FamilySearch
Transcript
On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker B:Descended from a witch possessed by a demon.
Speaker B:House full of doilies.
Speaker A:No wonder Lizzie Borden had serial killer eyes.
Speaker A:Let's do this.
Speaker B:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker B:I'm Diana.
Speaker A:And I'm Liz.
Speaker B:And this week's six season 11 episode five, Thin Lizzy.
Speaker A:It is indeed.
Speaker A:What have you been up to?
Speaker B:Yeah, like, nothing exciting.
Speaker B:Well, I'll say that.
Speaker B:I went and got a massage and a facial with my sister to cap off her birthday celebrations and I went to Bastille Day in Oak Cliff.
Speaker B:They celebrated.
Speaker B:It's a little street festival.
Speaker B:It's pretty fun.
Speaker B:And yeah, that's about it.
Speaker B:That's about it.
Speaker B:That's all I got.
Speaker B:My brother got cats.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker B:Everybody likes cat animal pictures, so that's always fun.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, that's about it.
Speaker B:Nothing crazy here.
Speaker B:And you?
Speaker A:Oh, you know, just the usual.
Speaker A:Re watching TV shows.
Speaker A:I was re watching Miracle Workers and I realized during the.
Speaker A:During The Oregon Trail 1 Quinta Brunson and other short actresses, I really dislike watching them on screen because then I realized that, that because that's how I look to other people.
Speaker A:Because I'll see them, like standing next to like a tall person.
Speaker A:I'm like, that was ridiculous.
Speaker A:And I'm like, for the same.
Speaker A:That's how I look.
Speaker A:Saying, that's that person I look.
Speaker A:I'm like, don't you kiss that tall man.
Speaker A:That looks dumb.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, man.
Speaker A:Like, that's exactly how I look.
Speaker A:So that was my main takeaway from this weekend as I was rewatching Miracle.
Speaker A:Besides the fact that Daniel Radcliff a genius in that and it's.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's such an amazing show and I'm sad that it ended, but it needed to end what it did, I guess.
Speaker A:Speaking of that, like, those type of things, the Emmy award nominations just came out and none of our people from the show got anything.
Speaker A:They're what we do in the shadows.
Speaker A:They get nominated for best comedy and they got a writing nod but no actors.
Speaker A:So I didn't really give a about the rest of the nominations, but at least hopefully, fingers crossed that what we do in the shadows gets, you know, some.
Speaker A:Some nod.
Speaker A:And I guess in SPN land, Jensen's getting ready for the new the news vought that should be coming out.
Speaker A:I think it's coming out in August so that press is starting.
Speaker A:So we're getting more Jensen stuff.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:I say we re watching I'm not re watching.
Speaker B:But you mentioned Quinta Brunson.
Speaker B:Remind me.
Speaker B:Because I've been watching Abbott Elementary.
Speaker B:But then we're rewatching It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, which is.
Speaker B:It's a show about terrible people.
Speaker B:I mean, everybody knows that, but it's pretty bad.
Speaker A:They're too terrible.
Speaker B:Well, what I have learned is that it's a show that you don't want to, like, leave on in the background randomly or try to sleep to, because there it's very chaotic with a lot of yelling.
Speaker B:It's disruptive.
Speaker A:A lot of yelling and sometimes yelling words that you probably don't want in the background and other things that are just.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker A:And yeah, I've been watching.
Speaker A:It was like.
Speaker A:I was watching this show that's like a ripoff of Found or I don't know if Found ripped it off.
Speaker A:And it's called, like, Alert or something.
Speaker A:It's about, like, people who are, like, go missing in Philadelphia.
Speaker A:And having lived in Philadelphia, I'm like, that is not what this town looks like.
Speaker A:And, like, unless Philadelphia got really cleaned up.
Speaker A:And the past, like, few years.
Speaker A:But so probably not.
Speaker B:But anyhow, I'm watching it straight trash, even to the point where, like, Dave's like, no.
Speaker B:So when Babe's like, there's.
Speaker B:With you.
Speaker A:It's bad.
Speaker A:No, there's little.
Speaker A:There's nothing.
Speaker A:There is nothing on right now.
Speaker A:I think it is just like, we rewatch.
Speaker A:It's rewatch time.
Speaker A:I think everyone's just going back through.
Speaker A:I just.
Speaker A:I finished Parks and Rec.
Speaker A:I'm re watching.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker A:There's one more season of Miracle Workers I put off.
Speaker A:I'm re watching Harley Quinn because that show is brilliant.
Speaker A:And I also didn't, like, realize how brilliant it was until I was about two seasons in.
Speaker A:I was like, so re watching the first ones of that.
Speaker A:And, yeah, I think that's it.
Speaker A:So speaking of other television.
Speaker A:So this television show.
Speaker A:Yeah, so this episode was called Thin Lizzy, which is a reference to one of the best Irish rock bands that ever came out.
Speaker A:You know, had like, with frontman Phil line it.
Speaker A:The band Thin Lizzie.
Speaker A:And they're also doing a play off of Lizzie Borden, who coincidentally has the same birthday as Jared Padalecki, and that is July 19th.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So that will be the day after this drops will be Mr. Padalecki's birthday and Ms. Borden.
Speaker A:So celebrate together.
Speaker B:Double.
Speaker A:Double.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was gonna.
Speaker A:I was looking for something on Thin Lizzy to do for Laura on this but there just wasn't.
Speaker A:I mean, they're a great band, and they did a lot of drugs and they.
Speaker A:A lot.
Speaker A:And they.
Speaker A:They, like, did that stuff.
Speaker A:But, I mean, who has it, right?
Speaker A:So if you have a really good Thin Leslie story, send it to me.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was directed by Rashad Ernesto Green, who we last saw direct season 10, episode 17, Inside Man.
Speaker A:And it was written by Nancy One.
Speaker A:And this was Nancy's first episode.
Speaker A:She joined Supernatural this season.
Speaker A:Before that, she worked with Robbie Thompson on Rain and Jericho and the sci fi show Being Human, which was produced with.
Speaker A:By Jeremy Carver.
Speaker A:And then she would go on to work with him on frequency after this.
Speaker A:After that, she also went to do work on Jessica Jones, Little Fires Everywhere, Americana and Tiny Beautiful Things.
Speaker A:And then she was an executive producer and writer on the Rashida Jones show Sunny, which I hadn't heard of.
Speaker A:It follows Susie, an American woman living in Japan, and Sunny, a domestic robot made by her husband's company, as they uncover the dark truth of what really happened to Susie's husband and son, who disappeared in a mysterious plane crash.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:As far as I can tell, it only had one season, but there was a robot and Rashida Jones and a plane crash in Japan.
Speaker A:So now I kind of want to watch this because it sounds insane.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker A:It does.
Speaker A:So that's Nancy.
Speaker A:So she wrote this.
Speaker A:And we see.
Speaker A:We start off with the full moon outside a window in Fall River, Massachusetts.
Speaker A:And I know exactly where that is.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:So we start there, and we've got a young couple in a haunted hotel who immediately make a Ghost Facers reference, which I appreciate they did, which does.
Speaker A:Imply that they may have gotten back together.
Speaker A:And Ghost Facers may live on.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Well, he is trying to set the mood.
Speaker B:Dude is trying to set the mood.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:Because they definitely want to see a ghost.
Speaker B:So he's gonna turn on the record player, the lights.
Speaker A:It's a gramophone to make it extra creepy.
Speaker A:And it is playing this Daisy song that I hate because it gets stuck in my head.
Speaker B:Daisy Bell by Harry Lecrae and Mark Gasparo.
Speaker B:Well, the lights are flickering.
Speaker A:Song.
Speaker B:The lights are flickering.
Speaker B:It's super, super creepy.
Speaker B:Lights are flickering and they turn off completely.
Speaker B:And this chick was super nervous, rightfully so.
Speaker B:She's not into this, and he's teasing her.
Speaker B:And then a door opens on its own.
Speaker B:And I'm just going to tell you that my eyes are covered at this point because I am prepared for a Jump scare.
Speaker B:And you know, I don't love a jump scare or a super creepy ghosty thing.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:But if your eyes are covered, then you can't see that he has put his fists up because he's going to punch the ghost.
Speaker B:He's going to punch a ghost.
Speaker B:Well, I mean, I put.
Speaker B:You've seen.
Speaker B:When I put my hands over my eyes, I peek between my fingers because I'm a.
Speaker B:You can't not see.
Speaker A:But I, I, I've also heard little children on ghost hunt saying they're gonna punch the ghost.
Speaker A:Which I think is adorable.
Speaker A:So that's what I think.
Speaker A:Punch the ghost.
Speaker A:So he turns around and he's just gonna blow it off.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Oh, something is behind her.
Speaker A:No, I'm so don't love this.
Speaker A:And it has an axe and it gives her a whack.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she gets axed in the back.
Speaker B:And he tries to run, but he can't open his own privacy chain on the hotel room door.
Speaker A:I think what is not.
Speaker A:He's like, he's just very.
Speaker A:He's panicking.
Speaker A:He's full of adrenaline.
Speaker A:He pulls the door, doesn't realize that it's still chained.
Speaker B:But we did get a really, really cool shot.
Speaker B:Gold star for how this is shot.
Speaker B:Because we don't see him get struck, but it's clear he does by the blood splatter.
Speaker B:And then we just see like the sliver of his face through the cracked door as he, like, slides down.
Speaker B:I, I appreciated that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It was a good death.
Speaker A:And we also.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we can also see that the door has a sign on it that says Lizzie's Room.
Speaker A:And then after he got his whack and slid down the doorway, there was also a hanger on the door that said Lizzie Borden's Bed and Breakfast and Museum and Music.
Speaker A:Oh, there was no.
Speaker A:And it's just Lizzie Borden's Bed and Breakfast Museum.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:So now we know where we are.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:Sam and Dean are in the bunker and they are continuing to research the darkness.
Speaker A:The darkness.
Speaker A:And Sam thought he'd found something, but it was just a town of people that had been eating rabid possum meat.
Speaker A:Then Dean talked on possums, and they're.
Speaker B:Wrong because possums can't get rabies.
Speaker A:That is also true.
Speaker A:They cannot.
Speaker B:Cannot.
Speaker B:That's the whole thing.
Speaker B:And Dean says that, that rats.
Speaker B:But they're not.
Speaker B:And say because Sam.
Speaker B:And then Sam is.
Speaker B:So Sam's wrong about rabid, but it's correct.
Speaker B:They're marsupials.
Speaker A:So I was gonna wear a new possum shirt.
Speaker A:I got to buy this as Feral Girl.
Speaker A:Like, Feral Summer, something like that.
Speaker A:And it has a possum screaming.
Speaker A:But it was still in my dryer.
Speaker B:Well, Sam's like, well, so that wasn't a case, but this ax murder might be at this tourist trap.
Speaker B: ie Borden's actual house from: Speaker B:She was acquitted but lived, basically being shunned by her entire community for the.
Speaker A:Rest of her life.
Speaker A:Well, and he's trying to explain to Dean why this is so cool.
Speaker A:And Dean's just like, is this, like, a tourist trap?
Speaker A:Like, whatever.
Speaker A:It's probably just a psycho fan.
Speaker A:And Sam, like, no, it was locked up.
Speaker A:Like, there was no witnesses, no intruders.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:And then Dean's just like, it's your freaky serial killer fetish.
Speaker A:And you always wanted to see that house.
Speaker A:Yeah, but it's so cool, Dean.
Speaker A:Two people are dead at Lizzie Borden's house.
Speaker B:I'm a thing, but I feel.
Speaker B:I feel it.
Speaker A:That would be amazing.
Speaker B:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:The true crime.
Speaker A:That would, like, pop up if somebody died at Lizzie Borden's house.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:So it's like the Annabelle doll dude dying, like, oh, my God.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker B:Oh, I know.
Speaker A:I know.
Speaker B:Just adds to the lore.
Speaker B:People are dead.
Speaker A:It's sad.
Speaker B:And so Sam's like, no, this is actually a murder.
Speaker B:And by the way, the Borden clan's all buried there, so it would make sense to be a case.
Speaker B:And they're like, fine.
Speaker B:I guess we can go.
Speaker B:What the is Cass doing?
Speaker B:What is Cass doing?
Speaker A:He's binge watching the Wire.
Speaker B:So they're gonna go without him?
Speaker A:Yeah, he's just got to season two.
Speaker A:He's still.
Speaker A:He's got a lot to go.
Speaker A:So many people are gonna die.
Speaker B:All right, so we have no idea how much time has passed, but we are now in baby.
Speaker B:And baby is in perfect condition.
Speaker A:You know, some he doesn't have.
Speaker A:There's nothing else to do in that garage but rebuild a car, so take.
Speaker B:A while to get in.
Speaker A:Man.
Speaker B:Man.
Speaker B:That's okay.
Speaker A:He has a bunker full of magic.
Speaker B:He's probably in his pull magic parts.
Speaker A:Pull parts.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So she pulls up in front of the bnb.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And they are gonna go poke around this museum and shop, basically.
Speaker B:And there's a guy on the phone who's kind of like, innkeeper.
Speaker B:Whatever word you want to use.
Speaker A:He's a clerk or Clerk.
Speaker A:Hotel clerk.
Speaker A:And he's dressed in Victoria style.
Speaker A:And in this museum, there's Lizzie Borden paraffin and other, like, spooky stuff everywhere.
Speaker A:There's a framed ax on the wall.
Speaker A:Now we learn that Lizzie Borden also has gotten her own doll with crazy eyes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And this guy is explaining on these.
Speaker B:On the phone, talking to assumed to be a.
Speaker B:A future guest, explaining that there is no longer a crime scene and the room has been cleaned and.
Speaker B:Because I guess people are canceling their reservations.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:And I don't think that is what would happen.
Speaker A:I think that if you had Lizzie Borden fans who wanted to stay in that house and then you told them there was a murder, they would be.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:They would do what they're about.
Speaker A:Sam and Dean are about to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And after this guy gets off the phone, Sam's like, do you think it was a ghost?
Speaker B:And Dean's like, do you think it was a crazed fan?
Speaker B:And guys like, I think those are great questions for our paying guests.
Speaker A:And just when Sam's about to pay him, an angry woman comes out, also in Victorian garb.
Speaker A:And she is super pissed because he didn't cancel the bit.
Speaker A:Cancel the bakery order.
Speaker A:And they're gonna have $200 worth of Danish.
Speaker B:Well, Sam and Dana will make a little dent in that, but they're probably not eating 200 worth of Danish.
Speaker A:I could polish off 200 with the Danish.
Speaker B:Well, he's like, anyway, so Mason is this guy's name we've learned, because his mom was yelling at him.
Speaker B:And he.
Speaker B:They commit.
Speaker B:Dean commiserates with him about working with family.
Speaker B:And then he.
Speaker B:And then Mason explains that they're also not renting out the room that the murders happened in.
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker A:And he seems surprised that Sam wants it.
Speaker A:And again, you're working at the Lizzie Borden house.
Speaker A:I really don't think.
Speaker A:How are you surprised with this at all?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Is it an act?
Speaker B:Is his.
Speaker B:And he like, oh, you want to.
Speaker A:You just want the money?
Speaker A:Like, does he want.
Speaker B:Oh, we have to pay extra for that.
Speaker A:But I don't feel like he's doing that.
Speaker A:I feel like he's like, why do you want to stay in the murder room?
Speaker A:Person who is at the Lizzie Borden house.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:It's very weird.
Speaker B:But anyway, so, yeah, I'm like, no, you.
Speaker B:You know, all these people are creepers.
Speaker B:Come on.
Speaker B:They want to stay in the murder room.
Speaker B:Anyways, so Dean.
Speaker B:Dean pays to gives him some money.
Speaker B:They get a key.
Speaker B:And then Sam starts asking questions.
Speaker B:And the night of the murders.
Speaker B:Mason did not hear anything until he heard the screams.
Speaker B:When he went up, he saw the blood.
Speaker B:And the couple were local kids, and the guy was a descendant of the original Bordens.
Speaker A:He was in their family line, but not descended from Lizzie because Lizzie didn't have any children.
Speaker A:Neither did her sister, Spencer's sister.
Speaker A:So in the room they.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:You know, I'm gonna stay in my first Airbnb next week, and I am really afraid this is what's gonna happen.
Speaker B:It's gonna be a floral mess.
Speaker A:The floral mess at least.
Speaker A:Like, they get a small bathroom.
Speaker A:Like, I have to share a bathroom with people.
Speaker B:Oh, you're going.
Speaker B:Oh, you're not saying an Airbnb.
Speaker B:You're saying like an old school actual.
Speaker A:I'm staring.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm staying in a BNB for the first time.
Speaker A:Like, no, I.
Speaker A:You know, I've stayed in.
Speaker B:Like, that's why I was like, we've stayed in Airbnb.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is your first actual breakfast.
Speaker B:The shared.
Speaker B:The shared bathroom always stresses me out.
Speaker B:I've never stayed in one because of that.
Speaker A:But, yeah, for a few days.
Speaker A:And then I'm moving to an air.
Speaker A:Then I'm going to an Airbnb.
Speaker B:I hope they have danishes for you.
Speaker A:I really.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I hope there's a cat.
Speaker A:I don't think this hotel has a cat.
Speaker A:They usually say if they do.
Speaker A:Anyways, so we're in the doily room, and there's only one bed.
Speaker A:And Sam does not want to give up this room for any reason because it was Lizzie's room for sure.
Speaker B:He's into it.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So if anybody's gonna leave, Dean needs to get another room and that's it.
Speaker B:But Dean and Sam are gonna.
Speaker B:Sam's gonna have his EMF reader out.
Speaker B:And talks about how there's been reports of sounds of crying and footsteps and the lights flickering.
Speaker B:So ghost.
Speaker B:Yeah, ghosty stuff.
Speaker B:He examines the room.
Speaker B:Dean's examining the room.
Speaker B:The mint green bathroom is kind of adorable.
Speaker B:Just saying.
Speaker B:And yeah, there.
Speaker B:But the room does smell like lavender toilet water, apparently.
Speaker A:And Dean doesn't like.
Speaker A:He was like, why would you get water out of the toilet?
Speaker A:And then why do you keep spraying it?
Speaker B:Very ridiculous scene.
Speaker B:So Dean leaves.
Speaker B:He's like this.
Speaker B:I'm out.
Speaker B:Sam is going to wander around the house with the EMF reader because nobody else.
Speaker B:There's no other guests because of the murder.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker A:Yes, that's.
Speaker A:That's the thing.
Speaker A:That's why.
Speaker A:That's why the mom was mad because they have all the Danish and put it canceled.
Speaker A:So weird.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And like the EMF reader kind of goes bonkers.
Speaker B:It goes like 0 to 100.
Speaker B:It's just kind of like not.
Speaker B:And so he's trying to follow where it's leading him.
Speaker B:And he goes down this hallway, goes through the staff only door because of course he does.
Speaker B:Picking lock.
Speaker B:Looks at it while being watched by a portrait of Lizzie because there's creepy portraits of her everywhere.
Speaker A:There are.
Speaker B:And while he's doing that, Dean's down the lobby museum area, walking around, and.
Speaker A:He reads a Lizzie Borden brochure.
Speaker A:And on the flyer, the address of it is the actual real life address of the Lizzie Borden house.
Speaker B:Oh, is it?
Speaker B:That's cool.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, Nice.
Speaker B:Details, details.
Speaker B:But he.
Speaker B:The lights flicker while he's there.
Speaker B:So he inspects the light fixture first and then he sees a flash because someone is outside taking flash photographs with a large format camera.
Speaker B:Like a old school large format camera.
Speaker B:He tries to wave at them and they run away.
Speaker B:But Sam's in the attic where I'm like nervous because I don't want to get a jump scare.
Speaker B:Because he's in the attic because that's where that stuff happens.
Speaker A:Typically, yeah, those things happen in the attic.
Speaker B:But he doesn't find a ghost.
Speaker B:He finds this giant machine that is an EMF generator.
Speaker B:Huh, that's weird.
Speaker B:So he goes back to the room where Dean meets him and he tells Dean what he found.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, that's fun.
Speaker B:Guess what I found?
Speaker B:And he found timers in the walls to make the lights flicker.
Speaker B:And behind portraits were speakers for a sound system that had recordings of crying, footsteps, whispers, and a toilet flushing that.
Speaker A:They don't know why.
Speaker A:But it.
Speaker A:But it also doesn't explain how the murderer got in and out of a locked house.
Speaker A:But Dean wants to get out of there and go discuss it over a lobster roll.
Speaker B:I don't blame him.
Speaker B:I always wanted to do that, you know, so no shade in there.
Speaker B:No shame in that one.
Speaker B:And he refers to the room as a doily coffin, which is dark and sad and funny.
Speaker B:So while he's.
Speaker B:While they go to that, we see the.
Speaker B:Well, they've left to go eat.
Speaker B:We see mom walking around the lobby turning everything off.
Speaker B:And as we go past, we see in the background that the ax that was in the display on the wall is missing.
Speaker A:She just is missing.
Speaker A:And then she goes into her bedroom and then she gets whacked.
Speaker B:She gets axed.
Speaker B:I was thinking about this.
Speaker B:So it's not.
Speaker B:Do you get stabbed with an ax, Right.
Speaker A:Took an axe and gave her mother 40 wax.
Speaker B:Is that the technical term?
Speaker A:Get wet.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:Whacked or axed or.
Speaker A:You get whacked with an axe, you get decapitated.
Speaker A:You can get cut.
Speaker A:You can get, you know, stabbed.
Speaker B:Just doesn't feel right with an.
Speaker B:It's not stabbed.
Speaker A:So you get stabbed with a knife.
Speaker B:Because stab is more like pointy.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:You can get sliced.
Speaker A:I mean, technically, you probably get stabbed, but like, if you'd have to be a hor.
Speaker A:Horizontal.
Speaker A:You remain of the axe things the.
Speaker B:Show makes me ponder.
Speaker A:I think more people got hit on the head with the ax part that actually got like.
Speaker A:Got legs.
Speaker A:Not stabbed.
Speaker A:Slices.
Speaker A:Accident waxed.
Speaker A:So, okay, so she's whacked.
Speaker A:And then the crime scene.
Speaker A:Crime scene unit, Falls River, Massachusetts arrives.
Speaker A:And they're like, we're not this up at the Borden house again?
Speaker B:No, our detective, Detective Madison doing that.
Speaker B:Detective.
Speaker B:Detective Madsen is like, thank you, FBI.
Speaker B:I will tell you whatever.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker B:Like, come on.
Speaker B:And Sam introduces himself as Agent Collins.
Speaker B:Mason.
Speaker B:Our.
Speaker B:Our.
Speaker B:The son.
Speaker B:The innkeeper son.
Speaker B:Guy is like.
Speaker B:He's just really mad that they were FBI and they weren't there when his mom got murdered, which I kind of get that kind of sucks.
Speaker A:I mean, like, what, you're here and.
Speaker B:They left and then my mom got murdered.
Speaker B:That's up.
Speaker B:But Dean's checking EMF quietly in the corner, and there's a whole lot of nothing.
Speaker B:So while that's happening, Dean's like.
Speaker B:Or the detective tells Sam that, like, mom locked up.
Speaker B:There was no one else there.
Speaker B:Which also, like, what were they just gonna, like, let.
Speaker B:I guess they get a key to let themselves back in if they're staying there.
Speaker A:But yeah, I mean, that would.
Speaker A:I assume that's what happens in a hotel, right?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like some way to get into there.
Speaker A:Or you have to like, let the.
Speaker A:Her landlady know that you're going to be coming late.
Speaker A:And then she'd be like, why are you boys out so late?
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker B:You troublemakers.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then Dean would flirt with her.
Speaker A:And then, you know, that's what happened.
Speaker A:Anyhow, so Dean's like, yeah.
Speaker B:Dean's like, by the way, this guy.
Speaker B:There's some dude taking pictures outside earlier.
Speaker B:And the detectives like, oh, yeah, I know him.
Speaker B:He's harmless.
Speaker B:He's just obsessed with Lizzie Borden.
Speaker B:We went to high school together.
Speaker B:It's fine.
Speaker B:He just likes ghosts.
Speaker A:Yeah, he.
Speaker A:He was nice and quiet and so.
Speaker A:But also, since we Have Agent Gabriel and Agent Collins.
Speaker A:We now have the band Genesis.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So we've learned about Lynn.
Speaker A:And then when Sam asked the cop if ghosts are a problem, the cop says, not.
Speaker A:If you ask the court, the chamber of commerce, they will tell you.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker B:Which is hilarious because it's like, okay.
Speaker B:Tourism towards them.
Speaker A:Dollars.
Speaker B:All right, so Sam and Dean are driving and they're discussing the fact there's been no evidence of ghosts yet.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, maybe it's actually a straight up serial killer.
Speaker B:Which is a good point.
Speaker B:And as they're driving, the detective calls Sam because they have another victim miles away from the house now.
Speaker B:So they decide Sam's gonna go check that crime scene while Dean goes and talks to Len, the Lizzie Borden ghost obsessed dude photographer.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker B:So at the.
Speaker B:At this house, we've got our babysitter, Sydney.
Speaker B:And apparently she was home with this kid and found dad dead in the driveway.
Speaker B:He got axed.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, whoa.
Speaker B:I try to ask her questions while this kid just sits there.
Speaker B:There.
Speaker B:Jordy's just like kind of zoned out.
Speaker B:And then a woman enters and mom.
Speaker B:So the kid runs over and she asked the sitter if.
Speaker B:If her child saw anything.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And instead of being concerned, she tells Sam to get out.
Speaker B:Has no interest in answering any questions.
Speaker B:Just tell him to leave.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, she's very, very angry that he wants to ask her questions.
Speaker A:So we're all like, oh, what does this woman have to do with things?
Speaker B:Things super sus.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, Dean is at Len's place and his place is full of Lizzie Borden stuff.
Speaker B:Like a messier version of the museum, more cluttered version of music.
Speaker A:A cluttered version, but he's got like a Lizzie Borden life size mannequin.
Speaker A:And he says that he is just living his bliss.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And apparently the camera that he was using is what the Victorians would use to try to capture photos of spirits.
Speaker B:And because he thinks he has seen Lizzie before as a wispy gray figure, but he's never been able to capture her on film.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So the most part spiritualists, when he says Victorians are.
Speaker A:You know, when the spiritualists were doing spirit photography, they were just using normal cameras.
Speaker A:And a lot of times that was just double exposures or things like that.
Speaker A:And there have been certain ca.
Speaker A:There were certain cameras that were supposed to be spirit cameras, but they were all just cameras.
Speaker A:Like, there was never, like technology wasn't.
Speaker B:There for that much of a variety of camera at that time too.
Speaker A:But there is a whole Lot of spirit photography.
Speaker A:Like, it becomes like this thing and like there's like courts and stuff about like spirit photographs.
Speaker A:But anyways.
Speaker A:But that camera was just a normal camera anyways.
Speaker A:But he says that he has seen Lizzie and she is a wispy gray shadow and.
Speaker A:But she doesn't normally show up on camera.
Speaker A:However, you know, he can't really be at her place because there may be a minor restraining order and there may be a gag order about that restraining order.
Speaker A:And anyways, I mean, it was.
Speaker A:It was Lizzie's 155th birthday and he just.
Speaker A:He couldn't get her bedroom.
Speaker B:Well, and.
Speaker B:And Dean's clearly a federal agent, so of course he can tell him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And you know, he couldn't get her bedroom.
Speaker A:So then he just stayed in her basement, you know, for like a day or two or a couple of weeks.
Speaker B:That's all.
Speaker B:No big.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker A:You know, he just was hiding in the basement of the Lizzie Borden house.
Speaker A:What is wrong with that?
Speaker B:Len?
Speaker B:This is very wrong.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:Yeah, but the only wild thing recently was getting spotted by Dean.
Speaker B:And then as he's sharing this, an alert goes off on his computer because apparently it is time for him to host his regular Lizzie Borden web chat specifically about these murders.
Speaker A:But he's not Lizzie cnn.
Speaker B:No, he's got.
Speaker B:He's busy.
Speaker B:It's too much pressure.
Speaker B:Well, we've got.
Speaker B:Our detective is talking to Sam outside of the house where the dad was killed saying, look, this is four murders in a couple days with no leads.
Speaker B:The town is freaking out.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, yeah.
Speaker B:Mrs. Pinsky didn't seem really upset about her husband's death.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And the Texas like, it could be shock.
Speaker B:Let's not jump to conclusions because people have, quote, freaky ass reactions to loss.
Speaker A:Which is a.
Speaker A:Not a great way of saying that, but also it's true.
Speaker A:People go into shops.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like that's not.
Speaker B:He's not wrong.
Speaker A:He's not wrong.
Speaker A:He could, you know, but I guess.
Speaker A:Cops.
Speaker B:I was amused by his wording.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So then we go back to lens.
Speaker B:Because Dean has now spotted a sketch of the mark on the back of an envelope.
Speaker B:Rut row.
Speaker B:Ruh row indeed.
Speaker B:Because that's.
Speaker B:That's not good.
Speaker B:Lenron Lynn lies badly when he asks what it is trying to say.
Speaker B:He saw it on a ghost paranormal sight and then finally admits that he was outside Lizzie's a few nights ago and he saw a girl who wanted to see where Lizzie axed her folks.
Speaker B:Who was this Little girl.
Speaker A:It's Amara.
Speaker A:No, it's the darkness.
Speaker B:And so the little darkness.
Speaker A:Yeah, the tweeny darkness.
Speaker B:Tween darkness.
Speaker B:And so Lynn's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:Like, she's like, her parents were the worst.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, yeah.
Speaker B:You know, but really, Andrew Borden was probably the one that did it.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And then he's like, ah, this chick's real young.
Speaker B:I probably don't need to be standing like outside at night with this young girl talking about murders.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But Amara is also disagreeing with him about her, about Lizzie's uncle being the murderer, because Lizzie definitely hacked them because Lizzie had the serial killer eyes.
Speaker A:So Lizzie Borden was actually mentioned in the show in season eight, episode 22, clip show.
Speaker A:And in that episode, Dean did find a file in the bunker, but said Lizzie had been possessed by a demon.
Speaker A:And the Men of Letters had documented that.
Speaker A:So we know that Lizzie Borden did kill her parents, but she was possessed by a demon.
Speaker A:So we're going to talk about some lore because there have been many theories about the born and murdered, not necessarily that it was a demon, but that it was Lizzie's weird Uncle John.
Speaker A:That was something that has definitely been talked about.
Speaker A:And however, we're not going to follow that thread.
Speaker A: mily tree back in time to the: Speaker A:Morse, who was a spoiler alert convicted of being a witch.
Speaker A:That is right.
Speaker A:Lizzie Borden is descended from a convicted witch.
Speaker A: So it is the year of: Speaker A:The town is full of puritans with six of their asses who have a hardcore belief in witches.
Speaker A:The shoemaker William and his wife, Elizabeth Morse, Both in their 60s, although Elizabeth is said to be a little bit older, lived in their modest farmhouse with their 10 year old grandson, John.
Speaker A:Now, this farmhouse, according to William and Elizabeth, have been suffering from what we today would probably associate with poltergeist activity.
Speaker A:Sticks and stones were thrown against the house by unseen hands.
Speaker A:A hog appeared in the house at night after the doors were locked.
Speaker A:Yeah, there was a pain.
Speaker B:That would be upsetting.
Speaker A:That was.
Speaker A:That was very upsetting.
Speaker B:Like, okay, lights up, that's annoying.
Speaker B:Door annoying.
Speaker B:But a pig showing up in the middle of the night.
Speaker A:Pig shows up.
Speaker A:I wouldn't sleep well.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Tools would disappear and reappear.
Speaker A:Things came down the chimney.
Speaker A:A tray with wool on it just leapt up and down A woolen wheel was turned upside down and stood on its end.
Speaker A:And then a spade was put upon it.
Speaker A:When trying to make the bed a chest would open and shut and then the bed clothes would stay on the clothes on the bed and they kept flying off.
Speaker A:And then also addition to that, poor 10 year old John had been suffering from fits and seizures.
Speaker A:So the Morses had a neighbor, the navigator Caleb Powell, who boasted that by looking at the stars he could tell you exactly where his vessel was.
Speaker A:He also had an idea what was causing the problem at the Morses.
Speaker A:And suggested to William that maybe if he eased up on John and let him play outside more it would help his health.
Speaker A:Additionally, the town folk were starting to whisper that all the stuff that was happening at the Morris's house was Elizabeth's fault and she was a witch and she was cursing her own house.
Speaker A:Caleb then assured the Morses that he knew that Elizabeth was not a witch.
Speaker A:And if he could take John for the day their troubles would be over.
Speaker A:Caleb came and took John at the break of day, kept him until night and no activity occurred at the Morses.
Speaker A:The Morses then came to the obvious conclusion.
Speaker A:Caleb was a wizard.
Speaker B:So obviously.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:16.
Speaker A:1679, not 18Z did not travel in time.
Speaker A: He was in: Speaker A:So side notes on the court at the time.
Speaker A:So the courts in the colony operated within a three tier system, generally based on the severity of the crime.
Speaker A:With appeals allowed from the lower tax to the higher courts.
Speaker A:Lower courts handling civil matters, petty crimes, those were heard by a commissioner, a justice at the peace or a municipal court.
Speaker A:The county courts, next ones up, were operated as circuit courts and they met quarterly in Cambridge, Boston, Ipswich, Salem, Springfield and York, which is now Maine.
Speaker A:These these were served by magistrates appointed by the general courts.
Speaker A:They heard civil cases of things not exceeding ten pounds as well as criminal cases except those that would be punishable by ban punishment because that was the thing that happened in the colony.
Speaker A:Like they just would sit you out to the.
Speaker A:Just go banish away.
Speaker B:You can't sit with us.
Speaker A:You can't sit with us.
Speaker A:Loss of life or loss of limb because that was also a limb was a punishment.
Speaker A:The next court level was a greater quarter court comprising the Governor, deputy governor and 12 assistants, also known as the court of assistance.
Speaker A:They met twice a year to hear the criminal cases punishable by loss of life or limb.
Speaker A:Divorces in civil cases above the county court's Pay grade as well as any appeals from the lower courts.
Speaker A:All right, so back to the witches.
Speaker A:Caleb Cow kapow being complained of for suspicion of working with the devil to the molesting of William Morris and his family had a warrant issued for his arrest.
Speaker A:The case to be prosecuted at the county court in Ipswich in the coming march.
Speaker A:He did have to pay a security of £20 or go to prison until then.
Speaker A:During the trial several witnesses came forth and testified against Caleb.
Speaker A:John Badger affirmed that Caleb said he thought by astrology and I think by astronomy too with it.
Speaker A:So he thought he could see things by the stars.
Speaker A:And he said he could find out if diabolical means were used against the Morses.
Speaker A:Thomas Rogers and George Hardy said they saw dirt in the chimney of the Morses move.
Speaker A:Rogers was hit with something and a ladle hit Hardy and they saw a shoe hit William.
Speaker A:Mr. Richardson had a board flag in his chair and heard a diabolical noise in the other room.
Speaker A:Anthony Morris, William's brother also saw some stuff in the house.
Speaker A:John Dole saw a pen and stick of candlewood fall and a stone but he couldn't see where they came from.
Speaker A:Elizabeth Titcomb stated that Caleb claimed he could identify a witch if only he had another scholar with him.
Speaker A:A claim that was affirmed by two other witnesses.
Speaker A:Two other witnesses claimed that Caleb told them that he saw a boy the John throw the shoe.
Speaker A:Emerson came and testified that Caleb was brought up in Norwood.
Speaker A:And it was well known that the people in Norwood studied the black arts.
Speaker B:I mean clearly, clearly Sarah Hale, Norwood.
Speaker A:People of those Norwood people take this my testimony here.
Speaker A:Dear court, this you should note this for the record.
Speaker A:Sarah Hale, 33 and Joseph Merrick testified that Joseph Morris, the boatswain of Caleb Ship had often said in their hearing if there were ever any wizards he was sure Caleb Powell was one just.
Speaker B:And sitting around announcing that.
Speaker A:Okay, Yep.
Speaker A:And Mary Tucker, 20 deposed that Caleb told her he broke the enchantment at the Morse's house.
Speaker A:So for he saw the boy throw a shoe at William's head.
Speaker A:And Mary Richardson affirmed when it came time for Caleb to take the stand he explained that one day he was walking by the Morris's house, saw William in prayer with his eyes closed and then saw his grandson John come into the room and throw a shoe at his head.
Speaker A:This wasn't witchcraft, this was an of a kid.
Speaker A:So the court then determined though he.
Speaker B:Was just a little, he was a little it.
Speaker A:So the court though determined that although not guilty Caleb was suspicious enough that he had to pay the court cost and ought to bear his own shame just for being so suspicious.
Speaker B:For being a little.
Speaker A:No, no, not John.
Speaker A:No, not the child.
Speaker B:Oh, Caleb.
Speaker A:Caleb the navigator.
Speaker A:Caleb.
Speaker A:He had for first telling people that he could figure out who a witch was and for using astrology to navigate his boat vote.
Speaker A:You have to pay your.
Speaker A:You have to pay the court fines.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But so they did that and he was set free.
Speaker A:And for the people though this would not do.
Speaker A:They knew there still must be a witch somewhere and it's got to be that old woman Elizabeth.
Speaker A:After all, none of these attacks targeted her.
Speaker A:She was the village nurse and she had two daughters who gave birth out of wedlock.
Speaker A:So clearly she was convert cavorting with Satan.
Speaker B:Obviously.
Speaker A:Obviously.
Speaker A:So after Caleb's release gave all the evidence that showed how much the town Ipswich loved witches.
Speaker A:Therefore the grand jury returned a bill of indictment to try Elizabeth by the court of assistance which was sitting up in Boston, a town known for hating.
Speaker A:Hating witches.
Speaker A:I just made that last part up.
Speaker A:But so she was.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, probably not wrong.
Speaker A:So she was indicted for having familiarity with the devil contrary to the peace of our sovereign Lord the king and the laws of God.
Speaker A:Now Elizabeth may have had some issues with her neighbors because 17 came forward to testify reasons that it was obvious she was a witch.
Speaker A:Oh, reason she was not making.
Speaker B:She was not making friends.
Speaker A:She was not as the nurse.
Speaker A:She was not making friends.
Speaker A:So a neighbor argued with Elizabeth and then his cow would not let his calf nurse.
Speaker A:Sheep just wandered onto the moors property because clearly Elizabeth was luring there.
Speaker A:Luring them there with her sorcery.
Speaker A:After Elizabeth argued with Zachariah Davis about some foul.
Speaker A:One of his calves danced and roared then sat up upon its tail like a dog and then it died.
Speaker A:Died.
Speaker A:Later John Chase said Elizabeth came into his bedroom through a tiny hole.
Speaker A:Mrs. John Wells saw the imp of God in the Morse's house.
Speaker A:A man saw half of Elizabeth's body walking through the town during the day James Brown struck a cat that was pestering him.
Speaker A:And then a bruise appeared on Elizabeth's leg in the same spot where he came kicked the cat.
Speaker B:Why was he looking at her leg?
Speaker A:Why was he kicking a cat?
Speaker A:So Elizabeth went to nurse a sick child and then she told the child's mother the child was probably going to die.
Speaker A:And then it did.
Speaker B:And finally sounds like she was being a nurse.
Speaker A:She's just like your kid's gonna die.
Speaker A:And then it did.
Speaker A:But that was magic.
Speaker A:And finally good wife Chandler became ill After a visit from Elizabeth, she nailed a horseshoe above her door to keep Elizabeth out.
Speaker A:But another neighbor, who probably thought this, too was witchcraft, took down the horseshoe.
Speaker A:Then Elizabeth came back.
Speaker A:Then good wife Chandler died.
Speaker A:So with all of this, of course, Elizabeth was convicted.
Speaker A:On May 27, the governor gave her the death sentence.
Speaker A:Elizabeth, you were to go from hence to ye place from which you came, and then to the place of execution, and they're to be hanged by ye neck till you'll be dead.
Speaker A:And ye Lord, have mercy on your soul.
Speaker A:But then on June 1, the governor and the assistants decided that she should be reprieved until the next time.
Speaker A:The court had a session in Boston.
Speaker A:Then the court had a session in Boston, and she was again a pre.
Speaker A:Then, like, that started making some of the other, like, the House of Deputies were like, why aren't you hanging this witch?
Speaker A:What is going on?
Speaker A:So she's in prison for, like, a year.
Speaker A:William is petitioning.
Speaker B:You're old, right?
Speaker A:She's old.
Speaker A:She is in her late 60s at this point.
Speaker A:William is petitioning for a new trial or just something like some form of closure.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Can we do something?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:The House of Deputies voted for her to have a new trial, but the magistrates didn't want to comply with that.
Speaker A:Then William called for a council of clergymen to come and examine her, and they reported that her discourse was very Christian.
Speaker A:She still pleaded her innocence.
Speaker A:And while they didn't think it prudent to pass a sentence on her, they were.
Speaker A:They were inclined to be charitable.
Speaker A:So Elizabeth was finally released to her house, but forbidden to travel more than 16 rods from her property without a pastor or a deacon, because who knows what she could do with her devilishness.
Speaker A:And the Reverend Hale then come to her on her deathbed and said she was troubled and had a darkness of spirit.
Speaker A:And they're like, yo, is it the witchcraft?
Speaker A:And like, no, I got really impatient and cursed the Lord's name while I was in prison.
Speaker A:I'm afraid I'm gonna go to hell for that.
Speaker A:So they're like, yeah, we don't think she's a witch.
Speaker A:So she died because she'd been in jail, prison.
Speaker A:And that was even, like, really a prison because it's a colony in New England that's been around for 40 years.
Speaker A:It was probably just like, yeah, it was probably just some, like, bricks and like, you know, whatever.
Speaker A:So she was an old lady.
Speaker A:So she died.
Speaker A:Died.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:But her.
Speaker A:Her little.
Speaker A:Little grandson went on to have more children and never faced many consequences.
Speaker A:But through.
Speaker A:Through Those children we do have, you know, Lizzie Borden and Samuel Morris, the guy who did the telegraph.
Speaker A:And there's actually a lot of famous Morses.
Speaker A:There's a Morse Society, and they put a plaque up on a building on Market Square in Newberry where they put.
Speaker A:Believe the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The Morse's house once stood.
Speaker A:So that was.
Speaker A:This was about 10, 10, 12 years before Salem.
Speaker A:So this was the first witch in Massachusetts that was convicted and sentenced.
Speaker A:She was sentenced to death, but she did not die of execution because she just died.
Speaker B:Died in Oregon prison well after.
Speaker A:But probably this hadn't happened.
Speaker A:She probably would have, you know, so.
Speaker A:And they're also saying during that time in Newberry, there was, like, the town was.
Speaker A:Was split because half the town wanted, like, we're backing, like, some reverend's play for power, and the other half wanted, like, the church to be run by, like, a bunch of other people.
Speaker A:So, like, and Elizabeth and her.
Speaker A:Her husband were on one side, and the people that accused them were on the other.
Speaker B:So this might have been slightly political crazy.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker A:Are you kidding?
Speaker A:So, but I mean, also, though, like, these people still really believed in witches, right?
Speaker A:So that's kind of like.
Speaker A:Like, you could still be.
Speaker A:Still be convicted for being again, like.
Speaker A:And they're like, there's not a witch here, but it's clearly a kid, like, throwing a shoe.
Speaker A:At least I saw the kid throw a shoe.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But then they're like, no, so must be a witch.
Speaker A: we don't want to live in the: Speaker A:Thank you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But anyways, I just.
Speaker A:I thought that was an interesting thread of Lizzie Borden.
Speaker A:And if you.
Speaker A:If you want to learn more about Lizzie Borden, there are thousands of podcasts and podcasters who have stayed at the Lizzie Borden house and recorded all of their spooky ookiness that has happened there.
Speaker B:Interesting.
Speaker A:And you, too, can go stay there if you want, but it's a bed and breakfast.
Speaker A:You know how.
Speaker B:You know I don't like haunted places.
Speaker B:Come on, now.
Speaker A:I'm just like, it's got a lot.
Speaker B:I say that as someone that works in haunted places, but it's fine.
Speaker B:Fine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:All right, so we have now know that Amara has looked at him at Lens with her serial killer eyes.
Speaker A:And then we go back to the present where Dean's like, lens, why didn't you tell anybody?
Speaker B:And he's like, because I have a restraining order.
Speaker B:I'm not supposed to be on this property.
Speaker B:And I'm Talking to a 12 year old in the middle of the night.
Speaker B:That's super sus.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No one's gonna be like, so you were Talking to a 12 year old girl about murder?
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:At a place that.
Speaker B:On a property you're not supposed to be on.
Speaker B:Yeah, super, super sus.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But he noticed her birthmark and that's what he drew.
Speaker B:But Dean is caught on the fact that he said that she's 12.
Speaker A:Because Dean is Amara.
Speaker A:Like, he's like, what the.
Speaker A:Like, you have amara and she's 12?
Speaker B:Yeah, because he's.
Speaker B:He's shocked that she's that old already.
Speaker B:And Lynn's like, well, she might have been a little younger, but yeah, she's close to the that.
Speaker B:And so Len wants to know.
Speaker A:Honestly, I would have no idea how old that child was.
Speaker A:I'd be like, she's 7, 15.
Speaker B:No, I would be.
Speaker B:I mean, I would know a rough, like somewhere between 9 and 30.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:I would say tweeny.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:I was like, she looks tweeny.
Speaker B:She does tweeny.
Speaker B:But Dean tells Len that she's just a runaway and wants to know she's still in town.
Speaker B:And Len's like, I don't know, but I need to find her and you won't believe me.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker B:And it's apparently, we see.
Speaker B:We get another flashback to Amara eating Len's soul at the house.
Speaker A:Nom, nom, nom, nom, nom.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:But Len doesn't know that's what happened.
Speaker B:He doesn't know what Amaro did to him.
Speaker B:But since that night, he hasn't been right.
Speaker B:He can't eat, he can't sleep.
Speaker B:Things he used to love just kind of feel cold.
Speaker B:He put his collection on sale.
Speaker A:You machinists in Ohio that caught the Lizzie Boarded sale, that the soulless guy, like, freaked out and, like, sold for nothing.
Speaker B:And basically, he's just, like, playing the part.
Speaker B:Like, he doesn't really feel any of the things he's doing.
Speaker B:He just knows how he's supposed to act and what he's supposed to like.
Speaker B:So he's just doing that.
Speaker B:He's going through the motions, but.
Speaker B:And playing the part until he.
Speaker B:Even though he doesn't feel.
Speaker B:Feeling things.
Speaker B:So he went to go look for Amara, but hadn't.
Speaker B:Hadn't.
Speaker B:Hasn't seen her.
Speaker B:And yeah, he knows that he's a life and a friend.
Speaker B:Life and friends.
Speaker B:But now he just feels like a puppet man or a robot with a robot puppet man.
Speaker B:Robot puppet man.
Speaker A:Which sounds like.
Speaker A:It does sound like a band.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker A:You Come.
Speaker A:Come here when you hear us, robot puppet man.
Speaker A:So we go back to the crime sc, and Dean has called Sam, who is gagging over the news that Amara is 12 and 8.
Speaker A:Lynn Soul.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So they have to meet up, and they know that Len is not the murderer, but he is kind of sort of a witness.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, so basically we have to kill Len now.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, what the fuck are you talking about?
Speaker B:We're supposed to save him.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, oh, yeah, that's the new thing we're doing.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's really.
Speaker A:Sam gets the same look on his face that we all get, but you're like, no.
Speaker A:Saving people.
Speaker A:Hunting things.
Speaker A:Saving.
Speaker A:That was the first part of the bumper sticker.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, okay, Dean.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But Dean also thinks that Sam should be the one to fill Lynn in about his soul being hoovered because Sam has been there and he can do it in a sensitive way.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, there isn't a sensitive way to tell somebody their soul has been sucked out by a psychotic tween.
Speaker B:Correct.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, also the.
Speaker B:The widow of this guy that got murdered was super sus too.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, oh, well, maybe she's a.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like, I think she looks like a murderer.
Speaker A:That's what Sam's say.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, maybe she doesn't have a soul either.
Speaker B:And reminds him that Sam was quote, one chili Droid when he didn't have a soul.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So we go from there back to Jordy's, and nobody is answering the door.
Speaker A:So Sam calls a teenager, which always looks great.
Speaker B:And so he.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:Not creepy.
Speaker A:Why do you have a teenager's phone number?
Speaker B:She does have tattoos.
Speaker B:She does have tattoos.
Speaker B:She's young.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker B:At adult, but I know she seems.
Speaker A:Teenager, but I know.
Speaker B:So Sydney.
Speaker B:And she's like, oh, I don't know.
Speaker B:Maybe Dawn's with her special friend Nate.
Speaker B:So apparently dawn has been having an affair is what they're.
Speaker B:What the hint is here.
Speaker B:So she's like, I happen to know where Nate lives.
Speaker B:Why don't you go to his house?
Speaker B:Here's the address.
Speaker B:Have fun.
Speaker A:I just, you know, so has bullied her too.
Speaker A:Like, at this point, like, we.
Speaker A:We still think that she's a nice, nice girl.
Speaker A:And Sam is just like, young lady, you're all.
Speaker A:You're in a murder investigation with the FBI.
Speaker A:You can't mess with the Fed.
Speaker A:You gotta tell us.
Speaker A:So that's why she tells us about special friend Nate and.
Speaker B:Or is it why?
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:So we go out to Nate's, and Lynn is in the back of the.
Speaker B:Car, and he's just rambling about things he no longer enjoys and ponders if he may have had a stroke or maybe he now has a brain tumor.
Speaker A:Like, I can see that.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:Like, but he's also unbothered.
Speaker B:Even though things that used to.
Speaker B:He doesn't.
Speaker B:Like, he's not enjoying things he used to enjoy, but he's also unbothered by things that used to upset him.
Speaker B:So it's like, I guess he's taking.
Speaker B:I mean, not good and bad.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:Things that used to ick him out.
Speaker A:Like, he's no longer it.
Speaker B:Yeah, like.
Speaker B:Like shaking someone's sweaty hand.
Speaker B:Now he's just down to, like, lick it or any other body part.
Speaker A:Heart.
Speaker A:Just lick that sweaty sweatiness.
Speaker A:But so he feels, though, like something weird with dark wings is hatching inside of him.
Speaker B:Yeah, that doesn't sound good.
Speaker B:That doesn't sound good.
Speaker B:And so Dean cuffs Len to baby and tells him that Amara sucked out your soul.
Speaker A:Yeah, he.
Speaker A:Because Lynn caught them giving each other side eye.
Speaker A:He was just like, what are y' all talking about?
Speaker A:He's like, okay, okay, bye.
Speaker A:You have so.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker B:And they just leave them there.
Speaker B:Len's like, I've got questions.
Speaker B:How do I get it back?
Speaker A:Get it back.
Speaker A:Bye.
Speaker B:We're gonna go inside this house now, leaving you here.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So Sam and Dean go to this house, and it looks like there's been some disheveled furniture inside.
Speaker B:So of course, they're gonna just break right in and with.
Speaker B:And go in with guns.
Speaker B:They prick the lock, and they go in.
Speaker B:And I just.
Speaker B:Of course, like, Sam's, like, wandering around, searching the main floor.
Speaker B:And of course, Dean has to go to the basement, so Diana has to cover her eyes because that's what.
Speaker B:Because we're in a dark basement where the light switch doesn't work.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:But he also has a flashlight.
Speaker A:And so he turns on the flashlight.
Speaker A:And there's no jump scare for Diana.
Speaker A:There is.
Speaker B:I still jump because I'm a wuss.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Well, there's a bunch of tools and chairs, and then behind the mattress are the dead bodies of Nate and his is.
Speaker A:And Jordy's mom, who apparently was just.
Speaker B:A. Yeah, she was.
Speaker B:She just.
Speaker B:She was not missing her soul.
Speaker B:She was just a.
Speaker B:She was just not a good person.
Speaker A:Well, yeah.
Speaker A:Well, as we'll learn.
Speaker A:We don't know yet.
Speaker A:We honestly don't know.
Speaker A:This about her.
Speaker A:Except for what we.
Speaker A:Okay, so what we're going to.
Speaker A:Anyway, so she's dead.
Speaker A:Dean gets hit with a shovel.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I note immediately this is too many jump scares in the dark dark, because I did jump scare at the bodies, at someone watching Dean, and when he got hit.
Speaker B:So that's three in one scene.
Speaker B:Very short scene.
Speaker B:You're welcome for being reminded of what a wuss I am.
Speaker B:Sam, upstairs, now, sees a closet door moving.
Speaker B:So apparently somebody's trapped in the closet.
Speaker B:And he opens it.
Speaker B:And Jordy, the kid, is tied up there.
Speaker B:And then Sydney's there with a shotgun, too.
Speaker A:Oh, that's not great.
Speaker B:So Sam wakes up tied up in the basement next to Dean, and Sydney is just glad that she didn't kill them.
Speaker B:That's weird, because it's all Sydney and Dean, but she's also really glad she bagged them both.
Speaker B:And Sam decides to make fun of Sydney, the killer babysitter.
Speaker A:But she is keeping them as an offering to her new friend, Amara.
Speaker B:Because a couple of nights ago, she got totally sloshed at Molly's Hatchet Room, which the band performing that night was Bobby and the Bone Masters.
Speaker A:Nice.
Speaker B:Yeah, Amara stopped her in a parking lot.
Speaker B:So she's this chick's.
Speaker B:She's wasted, leaving the bar, trying to drive home.
Speaker B:Not great.
Speaker B:And a child approaches her in the parking lot to tell her she shouldn't drive and then assume.
Speaker B:Sydney assumes that Amara's parents are not great in leaving people and left her in a parking lot to hang out while they went to a shitty bar.
Speaker B:Yeah, but that's not what happened.
Speaker B:Amara just likes hanging out with places where dark shit's going down.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:She's like, star places.
Speaker A:And so Sydney is like, hey, I'm gonna give you my jacket, and we're gonna go inside and maybe Dr.
Speaker A:But I'm not so drunk that I can't be like, oh, hi, 12 year old here.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And Amara's like, I'm gonna help you.
Speaker B:And so she takes Sydney's hands, and Sydney laughs and says she feels like it's ecstasy, orgasm, and chocolate cake and Mars.
Speaker A:My next sex tape.
Speaker B:Amara is like an angel.
Speaker B:And Amaru is offended that she has been called an angel because she does.
Speaker A:Not look like a whiny wing suck up.
Speaker A:And then she eats her soul.
Speaker A:And it is quite dramatic.
Speaker B:Was that punishment for calling her an angel?
Speaker A:I think so, because she was just, like, making her feel happy at first.
Speaker A:And then she called her an angel, and then she ate her soul.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so, yeah, And Sydney asks what she is, and that's it.
Speaker B:So she gets her soul eaten.
Speaker B:Ta da.
Speaker B:So Sydney's telling Sam and Nene that, by the way, being with Amara was, like, total bliss.
Speaker B:I thought, like, floating.
Speaker B:It's good because I don't want memories.
Speaker B:My parents treated me like a human ashtray.
Speaker B:And she chose a very, very sad scene.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, because she's going through this, like, I don't have any of these bad things anymore.
Speaker A:And Sam's like, but what about.
Speaker A:Don't you want good memories?
Speaker A:And then she was like, look, tard, we don't all have good memories.
Speaker A:And sometimes, like, we just want an eternal sunshine of the.
Speaker A:You know, like, sometimes we just want to forget stuff.
Speaker A:And so she, though, is very also happy that her Jiminy Cricket voice that tells her to not do things because you'll get.
Speaker A:It's wrong or you'll get caught has now gone quiet.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's concerning, because now she's got.
Speaker B:She just does what she wants.
Speaker B:She doesn't have to worry about getting caught because she doesn't.
Speaker B:Doesn't matter if she gets caught.
Speaker B:She just doesn't care.
Speaker B:And so she does confess the couple at the end.
Speaker B:She killed them because apparently that dude, it was his closing move, and I guess he had done that with her, or she was implied that that's what he does.
Speaker B:He takes them to the.
Speaker B:The haunted house.
Speaker A:They get all scared, and then he does them while they're scared.
Speaker B:Yeah, so that's.
Speaker B:She did that on purpose.
Speaker B:And then the mom apparently kept two weeks of her pay when she worked at the hotel a few.
Speaker B:Or bnb, Airbnb a few years ago.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so she used to fantasize about killing her.
Speaker B:So now she's just doing.
Speaker B:Living her dreams.
Speaker B:And then Jordy's parents.
Speaker B:Well, the dad deals meth, and mom's a.
Speaker B:And so she's gonna take better care of Jordy than they ever could, and he'll be better off.
Speaker A:Yikes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, Jordy's not gonna have a good life.
Speaker A:I'm just saying.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So she, though, has been praying to Amara, and she can feel that.
Speaker A:That she's close.
Speaker A:And Dean wants her to come because she's like, we've been hunting for that for weeks.
Speaker A:And then Amara.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:Then she's.
Speaker A:Sydney screams.
Speaker A:She's a goddess.
Speaker B:Well, see, she is gonna.
Speaker B:Sydney is going to shoot Sam because Sam has broken free, and who has arrived but Len.
Speaker B:And Len axes Sydney.
Speaker A:What?
Speaker B:And so Sam takes the ax from him, and Sydney is On the ground twitching, saying that darkness is coming.
Speaker B:So peaceful loving for all of us.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's coming for all of us.
Speaker A:So the darkness is coming.
Speaker A:You promise?
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:It's gonna be so nice and quiet.
Speaker A:So we go out.
Speaker A:Out.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So that happens.
Speaker A:And then we go outside, and Lynn.
Speaker A:Lynn.
Speaker A:Jordy is wrapped in a blanket.
Speaker A:And Sam's asked him if he has a new family he can stay with.
Speaker A:And he's trying to empathize with them by telling him that his mom died and he was a baby and his dad was kind of shitty and, you know, you'll survive.
Speaker A:And Jordy's like, oh, yeah, I've got this Aunt Kathy who comes at Christmas, who.
Speaker A:I'm pretty sure if Jordy's dad was a method dealer.
Speaker A:Like, she kind of knows what his phone calls coming, and it's just kind of been prepared for the day that she's been waiting.
Speaker A:This is not a surprising phone call for Aunt Kathy.
Speaker B:No, Aunt Kathy's ready.
Speaker B:She's probably got.
Speaker B:She's probably got a guest room ready to roll.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:And Len is explaining to Dean how he ripped his hand out of the handcuff, not to help, but just to see if he could do it.
Speaker B:And he picked up his thumb like a miniature hot dog.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And James is kind of disturbed about this, right?
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But Lynn is also kind of just disturbed by himself, right?
Speaker A:Because he's like, what does it mean when you can't feel anything when you murder somebody?
Speaker A:Like, what kind of person can murder someone and not feel anything?
Speaker A:Well.
Speaker B:And he says his brain wasn't even telling him to help.
Speaker B:His brain told him to help, but not because he, like, felt a feeling about it.
Speaker B:He just was like, oh, I. I.
Speaker B:My brain says I'm supposed to do this.
Speaker B:It's kind of crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:He remembers what.
Speaker A:What you were supposed to do.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But Dean, like, reassures him a little bit.
Speaker B:He's like, look, if you have a thread of, like, conscience here, there might be hope after all, because that's not.
Speaker B:You're not really.
Speaker B:Even if you're doing it just because you feel like you're supposed to, that's still kind of like you're still doing the right thing.
Speaker B:Something's telling you to do that.
Speaker B:So Len's like, no, if I'm not stopped, I'm gonna end up killing someone else else.
Speaker B:You should just kill me now.
Speaker B:Otherwise, you know, I think.
Speaker A:I think, yeah, Dean can't.
Speaker B:I'm turn myself in.
Speaker A:At least we have gotten to the point where Dean Cannot just kill good.
Speaker A:Lynn has killed a person.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And we had this earlier in the episode where Dean had said he hasn't killed anybody, so we can't kill him yet.
Speaker A:And Stan's like that.
Speaker A:Sam's like, that's not the rules.
Speaker A:The rules were trying to save people.
Speaker A:So at least Dean the seems to have sunken.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so Len's new plan is he's going to turn himself in.
Speaker B:He's going to confess to all the murders to get himself locked up.
Speaker B:Because he remembers what it was like to do the right thing and that's what he wants to do.
Speaker B:So he's going to go through the motions doing the right thing as long.
Speaker A:As he can do that.
Speaker B:It's kind of sad and sweet.
Speaker A:And Dean has sad face.
Speaker B:He does.
Speaker B:It's kind of distressing.
Speaker B:But it's an interesting take on the soul lists.
Speaker B:But Sam and Dean are gonna go eat some burgers at.
Speaker B:At a dock and talk about it.
Speaker B:Because Dean cannot believe that Len just turned himself in.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, well, I don't know.
Speaker B:It's a different.
Speaker B:Everybody has a different reaction to losing their soul, though.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But Sam gets a pit in his stomach thinking about the Darkness and what.
Speaker B:What's.
Speaker B:What's happening here.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so he asked Dean what, you know.
Speaker A:Then they start talking about like how everything is different versions of the Darkness.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:How Sydney felt bliss around her.
Speaker A:And he was like, dean, what was it like for you when you were inside the giant fart?
Speaker A:Did you feel.
Speaker A:Did you feel bliss?
Speaker B:And he's like, it was.
Speaker B:Was quiet at first.
Speaker B:Then.
Speaker B:And then now just the rate of growth and her sucking souls.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:It might not be that hard to find.
Speaker B:We just need to go like.
Speaker B:He's very like, God, Michael, I'm gonna tell you how I feel about it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It was really quiet.
Speaker B:And then things kind of started happening.
Speaker B:And now she's really grown up.
Speaker B:We gotta go find her.
Speaker B:Bye.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So their plan is to just follow the body.
Speaker A:Is that she's leaving in the wake as she is sucking some souls to get stronger.
Speaker A:And so she's leaving a bunch of bodies.
Speaker A:She's probably not going to be that hard to find.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And they drive away.
Speaker B:And she wouldn't have been that hard to find because she was in the goddamn woods listening to them the whole time.
Speaker A:Bushes.
Speaker A:Like the Homer Simpson meme.
Speaker A:She literally does the Homer Simpson meme and comes out of the bushes.
Speaker A:She reverses the Homer Simpson meme, comes out and Then like crazily waves and says bye to Dean.
Speaker A:I'll see you soon.
Speaker A:Which is just some creepy ass child.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Tween girls with obsessions like, oh no.
Speaker A:Like this is a.
Speaker A:This is a horror story.
Speaker A:So before we could go back to the conclusion of our latest tween serial killer girl, do we want to talk about the.
Speaker A:The people who were acted in this lovely episode?
Speaker A:Casting count Couch is the casting couch.
Speaker A:Were they on that show that time with that guy?
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:We've got a few folks.
Speaker B:Len is played by Jared Gertner.
Speaker B:He's been in episodes of Ugly Betty, How I Met yout Mother, Two Broke Girls, Modern Family, American Dad a few times.
Speaker B:Who did voice work?
Speaker B:NCIS Best 911, Lone Star.
Speaker B:Also he played Elder Cunningham and Book of Mormon on Broadway.
Speaker A:That's awesome.
Speaker A:And they called him Little Jared when he was on the set.
Speaker B:Oh, that's funny.
Speaker B:Sydney was played by Tess.
Speaker B:Wait, Len?
Speaker B:That was Len?
Speaker A:Yeah, whoever's name was Jared.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:Oh yeah, yeah, that's Jared.
Speaker B:That's funny.
Speaker B:Sydney was played by Tess Atkins.
Speaker B:She's been in episodes of Continuum.
Speaker B:She was Natalie in the Flash and Michelle in the Hallmark series Hannah Swanson.
Speaker B:It's about six made for TV movies.
Speaker B:There's a series the Hannah Swanson series.
Speaker B:Then Detective Madsen was playing by Claude Knowlton.
Speaker B:He's been episode of L Word, the Closer, Scandal, Young and the Restless, Rosoli and Isles, Arrow, Criminal Minds I, Zombie, New Girl, the Order, Supergirl and the Good Doctor.
Speaker B:He was the stage manager in the Lizzie McGuire movie.
Speaker B:He was Clem Weatherby in Atlas Shrugged.
Speaker B:Who is John Galt, part of the series and was the JPL director in Transformers the Last Night.
Speaker B:Dawn Pinsky was played by Tracy Power.
Speaker B:She was in an episode episodes of Fall, the House of Usher, recent series.
Speaker A:And then Jordy, we still haven't watched it.
Speaker A:We can say every time you need to watch that show.
Speaker B:Every time I do too.
Speaker A:Like we're re watching shows.
Speaker A:There's nothing to watch.
Speaker A:Someone watch the house.
Speaker B:It looks stressful.
Speaker B:I'm not like it is.
Speaker A:Yeah, it looks like I have to be in a mood and I don't know what I'm gonna be in the movie.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Jordy Tada is played by Finn Wolford.
Speaker B:He's been was Richie in it and it too at Chapter two.
Speaker B:Excuse me.
Speaker B:He was Rivers Cuomo in a Weezer video.
Speaker B: in the Addams family movie in: Speaker B:Afterlife and Ghostbusters, Frozen Empire.
Speaker B:And he is probably best known as a young actor for his role as Mike in Stranger Things.
Speaker A:Yeah, I told you.
Speaker A:He went on to, like, not have a great.
Speaker A:Weird things would happen to Jordy.
Speaker A:Like, he went to the Upside Down.
Speaker A:Like, went weird for Jordy.
Speaker A:You get him best dad and you own the Upside Down.
Speaker B:Gross.
Speaker B:Pass.
Speaker A:And you get Winota writer for her mom.
Speaker A:It's pretty awesome.
Speaker B:That's a good one.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:So what did you think?
Speaker B:I enjoyed this episode a lot, even though I get distressed about the soulless stuff, because I feel like it did a really, really, really good job intersecting a concept of a.
Speaker B:A monster of the week because of the Lizzie Borden tie in and all of that in and the chick being the C into a.
Speaker B:The overarching story arc with the darkness.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's my opinion.
Speaker B:I can see why some people may not like that because it's kind of like, of course, this seems like.
Speaker B:Like it's kind of like almost too easy.
Speaker B:That's the darkness.
Speaker B:But I thought it was a cool.
Speaker A:Way to do it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think it was good.
Speaker B:I was upset about at the time, when I watched it, after I thought about it, I liked it.
Speaker B:Tom was like, of course it's the darkness.
Speaker B:And now I'm like, no, it's kind of cool.
Speaker A:It's smart.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker B:It's smart.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But it wasn't Lizzie Borden the whole time because you were just like, of course it's going to be Lizzie Borden, but Lizzie Borden was possessed by a demon.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I forgot.
Speaker B:You're right, though.
Speaker B:I remember that now.
Speaker B:Once you said that, I was like, no, we have.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker B:I knew in the back of my head, I was like, they've mentioned Lizzie Borden before.
Speaker B:So I was trying to, like, remember that, but I didn't look it up.
Speaker A:But Sam doesn't bring that up the entire episode, which is weird.
Speaker A:Think, you know, like, this is.
Speaker A:This is the Q and A.
Speaker A:This is a Q and A at the con.
Speaker A:So remember that time in season 11 where you had the episode about Lizzie Gordon and then, like, you didn't bring up that in season eight that they talked about in the minute letters.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So was Lizzie Borden actually possessed?
Speaker B:And if so, why didn't y' all acknowledge it?
Speaker B:And why did that impact the investigation?
Speaker B:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker A:So, yeah, that's my thoughts on this episode.
Speaker A:I love a Lizzie Borden.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Alrighty.
Speaker A:So y' all go read up for more of Lizzie Borden on your own.
Speaker A:On that note.
Speaker A:Cheers, sir.
Speaker A:Cheers.
Speaker B:Devil's Trap Podcast is a don't get it production.
Speaker B:Meow.
Speaker A:Devil's Trap Podcast is part of the Ship It Studio Podcast Network.
Speaker B:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap Podcast.
Speaker B:You can follow us on Instagram at.
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Speaker B:You can email us@devilstrapilstrappodcast.com don't forget to.
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Speaker B:We're at all your favorite podcast outlets.
Speaker A:And atdeviltrapp podcast.com I'm Babe.
Speaker B:Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
Speaker B:Going up to the spirit in the skies that's where I'm going to go when I die When I die and they lay me to rest?
Speaker B:I'm going to go to the place that.
