2:06 No Exit
We're going over Supernatural Season 2, Episode 6 - No Exit. And eeewwww that is a lot of goo. And serial killers! Well one serial killer - H.H. Holmes. Sorta. Liz will delve into his background and tell you all about the H.H. Holmes Curse!
Sources:
Selzer, Adam. The Curse of H.H. Holmes. 2012.
Selzer, Adam. H.H. Holmes: The True History of the White City Devil. 2017.
Frost, Rebecca. "The Curse of H.H. Holmes." Rebecca Frost Writes, 30 Oct. 2020, https://rebeccafrostwrites.com/2020/10/30/the-curse-of-h-h-holmes/.
http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/2.06_No_Exit
Transcript
Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:We're going to learn some valuable lessons like don't put your hands in holes.
Speaker B:So anyways, they started blasting.
Speaker B:Oh.
Speaker A:So do you know what chloroform smells like?
Speaker A:Let's do this.
Speaker B:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast where we're going to talk about season two, episode six, no Exit.
Speaker B:Hi, Liz.
Speaker A:Hi, Diana.
Speaker A:That's who we are.
Speaker A:Oh, what a great way to start this this week out.
Speaker A:I think that's a really good sign.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:Hi.
Speaker B:How are you doing this week?
Speaker A:I think I'm doing okay.
Speaker A:My office, craft space.
Speaker A:When you guys see the video, you'll notice that it is a fucking catastrophe because I have been building a 3D printer and that over 200 steps and 100,000 tiny screws.
Speaker A:And if you don't put them in right then it's like, it's not going to work.
Speaker A:And it won't tell you, like, what's not going to work, but you just, like, know, like, I'm going to break something.
Speaker A:And it's very traumatizing.
Speaker A:But they gave you gummy bears to do it.
Speaker A:So which I think is the best incentive.
Speaker B:The fun kind?
Speaker A:No, just the normal gummy bears.
Speaker A:That's horrible because you can't.
Speaker A:If you did the fun gummies, like, you could not.
Speaker A:You could not lay on the floor.
Speaker A:You would just be sitting with a screw and staring at it for like an hour and being like, I know, like, the screw should go somewhere.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:So the way, like, the instructions work out with this is like, after you get to a certain end of a chapter, they're like, great, you've now earned 10% of your gummy bears.
Speaker A:Or then you get to another one.
Speaker A:It's like, this was a really hard chapter.
Speaker A:You've earned 25%.
Speaker A:Eat this many gummy bears.
Speaker A:And then, like, occasionally.
Speaker A:Yeah, occasionally there's a step where it's like, this is really hard.
Speaker A:Have an extra gummy bear.
Speaker A:And so it's a great incentive.
Speaker A:It's really hard not to eat the gummy bears because, like, once you start, you're like, oh, man, I wanted to, but it's like, now I want another gummy bear.
Speaker A:I'm going to keep working until it to do that.
Speaker A:So that is one thing.
Speaker B:So well behaved with your gummy bears.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I've got other gummy bears I can eat if I want to.
Speaker A:I've got another jar that I was like, I could do them for emergency.
Speaker A:But I'm also like, no, you eat the gummy bears.
Speaker A:You're assigned.
Speaker A:Like, you'll get.
Speaker A:There's no special privileges.
Speaker A:Like, you only get rewarded for your work with gummy bears.
Speaker B:So I like it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:And then also, because my house is a mess today, I did a virtual tour with a new cleaning service.
Speaker A:And there's one.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, God, they're gonna judge me.
Speaker A:And then I also was like, well, we're gonna have this thing where I'm like, so these are the demon books, and these are the ghost books.
Speaker A:You can't put those two together.
Speaker A:Don't ever put those two together.
Speaker A:You don't know what's gonna happen.
Speaker A:And then, like, okay, over here, these are all my Katrina dolls.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:They're all skeletons.
Speaker A:Sometimes they move on their own.
Speaker A:Don't look at this one in the eyes.
Speaker A:Like, whatever you do, do not look at her in the eyes or something'.
Speaker A:So I sort of refrained from that.
Speaker A:But, you know, as you're, like, turning the picture around, you just kind of see the face going, like, yeah.
Speaker A:You know, there's like, you know, my giant Krampus doll that looks like, you know, a huge baphomet.
Speaker A:And, you know, I'm like, oh, that'll be fun to bring people in my house.
Speaker A:And they're like, what rooms can we not go in?
Speaker A:I'm like, well, there's a sex dungeon.
Speaker A:You can't go in the sex dungeon.
Speaker B:Please do not.
Speaker A:Please don't enter there.
Speaker A:I'm also like, my office is fucking off limits.
Speaker A:Like, you just.
Speaker A:I really am.
Speaker A:Like, I'm not letting them in my office because there's too much shit in here.
Speaker B:But that's funny.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm excited for you.
Speaker B:You know, bite the bullet and go for it.
Speaker B:We've been talking about it off and on for a while.
Speaker A:My floor is so dirty.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, like, our thing is, like, I.
Speaker B:You know, I only have.
Speaker B:I have someone complete my house, like, once a month.
Speaker B:I could justify more, but, like, I can do general maintenance.
Speaker B:I just don't.
Speaker B:Like, I don't.
Speaker B:I'm busy enough and occupied enough that my free time.
Speaker B:I don't necessarily want or have the energy to commit to cleaning my house from top to bottom.
Speaker B:So if someone can get.
Speaker B:It's like, a good point, and then I can maintain it until it's time to come back, I can do this.
Speaker B:And that's kind of where I'm at on it.
Speaker B:I'm like.
Speaker B:And like, I don't know, like, I don't have.
Speaker B:I don't have small children, and I kind of do three dogs.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, the house is so much.
Speaker A:That's why I felt.
Speaker A:I felt so guilty about it because I'm like, I'm a single woman.
Speaker A:I can clean my own damn house.
Speaker A:But after it took.
Speaker A:After this month of, like, chaos and it took so long and, like, it took so long to get everything in order and.
Speaker A:But I'm so much happier and so much more productive when everything is clean.
Speaker B:Like, that's why I'm doing it for sure.
Speaker B:Like, you know, like, when you come home and your house smells like cleaning products, it's like so much joy.
Speaker B:So that's.
Speaker B:That brings me so much joy.
Speaker A:Well, and procrastinator head, you know, it's like I will procrastinate doing something and, like, then I'll just end up in a spiral and I won't.
Speaker A:I won't do anything.
Speaker A:So this gives me.
Speaker A:I think it'll open up some more.
Speaker A:I'm hoping, like, it'll open up my wallet for sure.
Speaker B:But, you know, that too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And someone can finally, you know, mop my goddamn floor.
Speaker A:Cause I have no idea the last time this floor is mopped.
Speaker B:So I don't.
Speaker B:Did you do anything fun this weekend?
Speaker A:I built a 3D printer.
Speaker B:Oh, that.
Speaker B:That fun?
Speaker B:It sounds fun.
Speaker B:I'm envisioning, though, the instructions looking like IKEA instructions.
Speaker B:Like the little, like, stick figure dude in them.
Speaker B:And like, very unclear, kind of vague, but adorable.
Speaker A:No, they're.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:This is a company, It's Prusa.
Speaker A:And if anybody is, I will just shill them and, hey, Prusa, sponsor us.
Speaker A:Send me more 3D printers.
Speaker A:I'll fucking, you know.
Speaker A:No, they do, like, very.
Speaker A:Is a very detailed job is like, it's broken into chapters.
Speaker A:There's individual steps, and then I have, like, the printed version of it.
Speaker A:And then I also.
Speaker A:There's an online version.
Speaker A:And on the online version, like, each of the steps, like, people comment on them.
Speaker A:So you can go through and see where other people.
Speaker A:Yeah, so you can see where other people were having problems with it.
Speaker A:And so, like, there's a lot of information out there.
Speaker A:There aren't a ton of builds that on YouTube, like, all the way through, but I found one that's pretty close to it.
Speaker A:So I have like seven different references.
Speaker B:At all times spread out around you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So hopefully at some point this will.
Speaker A:This will be completed and then I can Start the wonderful world of making murder dioramas with my 3D printer, which is pretty much the goal right now.
Speaker B:So I want jewelry.
Speaker B:You have to make me jewelry like her.
Speaker A:Well, and jewelry too, obviously.
Speaker A:That's where we start.
Speaker B:Yeah, we helped host a car show at a pie festival.
Speaker B:So Texas Pie Fest up in Rockwall was this past weekend and there was pie, lots of pie and a shit ton of people.
Speaker B:And it was humid as fuck and then it rained and it was even more humid and all the places sold out of pie, which is great for all these businesses.
Speaker B:They're all small businesses that make pies.
Speaker B:And it was delicious.
Speaker B:We had a handful of cars and promoted our car show come up in October.
Speaker B:So it was a good day.
Speaker B:It was a long day.
Speaker B:It was a good day.
Speaker B:And yeah, I guess spent some time in the pool to recover yesterday.
Speaker B:And my, my brother got engaged this weekend, so it was exciting.
Speaker A:I know you don't listen to this, but Jamie, if you did, you know we were shouting you out.
Speaker B:But no, damn it.
Speaker A:So get everybody on your.
Speaker A:The place where you work that is not secret, but secret.
Speaker A:Tell them to listen to it.
Speaker B:Yes, but yeah, so you know, lots of, lots of little stuff going on this weekend and Dave and I are on the countdown.
Speaker B:Five years ago, right now, pretty much, we were in Mexico for our wedding.
Speaker B:So we got our five year anniversary this week.
Speaker A:I can't believe it's so long.
Speaker A:And it was such a weird.
Speaker A:I almost missed Diana's wedding because they moved the.
Speaker A:Because it was really windy.
Speaker A:It was in Tulum and it was very windy and they moved it from the place.
Speaker A:It was supposed to be on the beach, but nobody told me.
Speaker A:So I get down to the beach and I'm like, what the fuck?
Speaker A:I'm like, where is everybody?
Speaker B:It was raining sideways.
Speaker A:So then I had to run around till I finally found a wedding coordinator and like just slid in like right before the ceremony started.
Speaker A:I was like, this is so embarrassing.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I have fond memories of Diana's wedding where I stole a donkey and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyhow, let's talk about this episode.
Speaker B:Oh, wait, wait.
Speaker A:What are you drinking?
Speaker B:I'm drinking a generic Malbec.
Speaker B:Nothing exciting in this world today.
Speaker A:Cool.
Speaker A:I've.
Speaker A:I've drinking another senor and it's the Albarino, which is really good.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know you're drinking a white.
Speaker B:You don't drink a ton of white on your own.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker A:I mean just.
Speaker A:I don't drink a ton, but it's hot, so in summer so when summer comes, I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I drink a lot more of whites and roses because super heavy things are not, you know, not that great.
Speaker B:Yeah, gotcha.
Speaker A:All right, anyways, so stop blabbing now.
Speaker A:No Exit, which is based off of that title, comes from a play I don't want to talk about, so.
Speaker B:All right, so.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:It was directed by Kim Manners and written by Matt Whitten.
Speaker A:This was the first episode he ever wrote for here.
Speaker A:He actually ends up doing one more and becomes an executive producer for the rest of this year.
Speaker A:But that's pretty much.
Speaker A:He just has two episodes for it.
Speaker A:General veteran TV show writer.
Speaker A:Like, did a lot of Law and Order and a lot of, like, the Law and Order uk, which I haven't watched because I don't know how I would feel about Law and Order in Britain speak.
Speaker A:But I love Law and Order.
Speaker B:Britain speak.
Speaker A:What is it slower?
Speaker A:Like, I don't know.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know how I feel about that.
Speaker A:I.
Speaker A:But then, you know, like, does it go.
Speaker A:I guess I kind of actually would want to see that visit.
Speaker A:It would go into the courtrooms of England, which are.
Speaker A:I know there's people.
Speaker A:There's barristers and.
Speaker A:Which are not lawyers.
Speaker A:And usually Jake.
Speaker A:Someone in Ireland who is a barrister.
Speaker A:And it's a very different.
Speaker A:Like, there are different things.
Speaker A:Like, you don't have to go to law school for it.
Speaker A:And it's very weird.
Speaker B:It's more like a legal administrator in a way, right?
Speaker A:Kind of.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:But they're also not in a derogatory way.
Speaker B:It's just someone.
Speaker A:Yeah, but I mean, the record.
Speaker A:So they represent the.
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:He explained it to me one time, and then I kind of glazed over and I was like, whatever.
Speaker A:Yeah, like, they represent the criminals and they're still there and they're, like, arguing.
Speaker A:Kind of like more of the ins and outs of it.
Speaker A:Kind of like the.
Speaker A:Like the.
Speaker A:The bureaucracy, I guess, as opposed to the trial lawyering part, which is.
Speaker A:And you still have a trial lawyer.
Speaker A:Englander.
Speaker B:Weird.
Speaker A:All right, so, yeah, so we're going to start off in Philadelphia and fair warning, people.
Speaker A:I'm probably going to talk a lot of shit about Philadelph because I had a very miserable time when I lived there.
Speaker A:I was Diane.
Speaker A:I was like, oh, crap, it's in Philly.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, shit.
Speaker B:Liz is gonna be talking shit.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Okay, look, this is the circumstance.
Speaker A:I moved to Philadelphia for two years after I Lived in New York for a while, and I just finished my first graduate degree.
Speaker A:And I was miserable.
Speaker A:I was in a very unhealthy relationship with.
Speaker A:And I was working for a very unhealthy company.
Speaker A:And I was isolated.
Speaker A:And Philadelphia was fucking scary then.
Speaker A:It's still probably scary a little bit.
Speaker A:But it was like the first week that I moved there, somebody got beat to death with, like, a hammer on the subway.
Speaker A:And I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker A:This is where I moved to fuck my life.
Speaker A:So, yeah, Philly, fuck you.
Speaker A:But also, like, I sound like their.
Speaker B:Motto, like on a bumper sticker.
Speaker A:Probably this, like, in a nice Philadelphia accent.
Speaker A:Yeah, fuck you.
Speaker A:But, you know, they do have a meter museum there.
Speaker A:I love that museum.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:So you got some weird shit and some good.
Speaker A:Really good food and.
Speaker A:Yeah, and a lot of Nazis.
Speaker A:So fuck you, Philly.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:All right, so Philadelphia.
Speaker B:So the scene that supposedly is taking place in Philadelphia, which obviously it's not shot there, but that's okay.
Speaker B:Shows like this really fucking badass arched window of this really fucking cool loft.
Speaker B:I thought.
Speaker B:I'm sure you felt the same.
Speaker B:You're like, that shit's not in Philly.
Speaker B:That's right.
Speaker A:What you were saying.
Speaker B:And I'm teasing.
Speaker B:I'm teasing.
Speaker B:I'm teasing.
Speaker A:Philly has really.
Speaker A:Philly has really cool architecture.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker B:But anyway, so she's like, bitching at her.
Speaker B:There's this chick in this.
Speaker B:In this really pretty loft bitching at her maintenance for an apartment, saying, this place was supposed to be done.
Speaker B:And obviously it's not done because there are missing plates over the light switch.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, not complete on the electrical side, but she's bitching about that while her lights are flickering.
Speaker B:And then this weird black goo starts dripping on her.
Speaker B:And then it starts dripping out of the fucking, like, outlet thingy.
Speaker B:And then I almost, like, threw my notepad in the air and jumped out of the sofa and.
Speaker B:Because I was so startled, because she looks into the little outlet hole where the.
Speaker B:This black goo is coming from, which should be just in a thin ass wall.
Speaker B:And there's a motherfucking eye.
Speaker B:There's somebody watching her through it.
Speaker B:And they startled me.
Speaker A:I thought about warning you about this episode.
Speaker B:And then I watched it a lot.
Speaker B:There's a lot of.
Speaker B:Through finger watching of this one where I kind of COVID my face, but kind of not.
Speaker B:Or hold my arm up, which I know does nothing, but it makes me feel better.
Speaker B:So it's okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, I will say my Theme for this episode is going to be ew.
Speaker A:And then also.
Speaker A:Aw, ew.
Speaker A:There's so much ew in this.
Speaker A:All right, so the scary eyeball.
Speaker A:Hairy eyeball.
Speaker A:Get a hairy eyeball with a hairy, gooey, droopy eyeball.
Speaker B:Very dirty.
Speaker B:It was very weirdly dirty face with this little, like, creepy eyeball.
Speaker B:Anyways, yeah, so we cut to our Winchester brothers.
Speaker B:They're outside of Liz's favorite location, Roadhouse, and Dean's trying to tell Sam that he wants to go to LA so they can rescue a girl from a culture.
Speaker B:And it was a Katie Holmes Scientology joke, which was funny.
Speaker A:It was funny and timely.
Speaker A:I mean, I don't know if it holds up now, but for kids, those of you who don't remember, yeah, Tom Cruise kidnapped Katie Holmes and made her join Scientology and she had to escape.
Speaker B:Yeah, okay.
Speaker B:Yeah, so.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And go ahead.
Speaker B:It was funny.
Speaker B:I was amused.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker A:Then they hear also, Sam sold Sam told to you as being bitchy.
Speaker B:Which was also really great.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then they hear Joe and her mom, Ellen, fighting inside the roadhouse.
Speaker B:And so they go inside to see what's going on, which is probably not the best thing to do if you hear a mother and her daughter arguing in somewhere.
Speaker A:Just like, no, what are you doing?
Speaker A:You say the fuck out.
Speaker A:You run away from that.
Speaker A:You do not rent your warrants.
Speaker A:You run away.
Speaker B:You can kind of like hover and stay back to see, like, if you can be of assistance at some point or support.
Speaker B:You can, but do not walk in on that chip.
Speaker B:Anyways, so basically the summary is Joe wants to be a hunter, her mom wants her to go back to school.
Speaker B:And that's.
Speaker B:And she was made a reference to when she was at school.
Speaker B:She was like the weird kid with too many knives.
Speaker B:It was pretty funny, I thought.
Speaker B:But anyway, so she.
Speaker B:After Ellen kind of like walks off, Joe gives Sam and Dean this file that they've that she's been working on about a girl who disappeared from an apartment in Philly.
Speaker A:And this is Nebraska for lovers Family.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I didn't miss them.
Speaker B:They were just ridiculous.
Speaker B:And I was.
Speaker B:It was so brief.
Speaker A:They were so bizarre.
Speaker A:Like, what the fuck are you there?
Speaker A:Like, I don't understand, like, where this family came in.
Speaker B:Like, and so this.
Speaker B:It's two.
Speaker B:Two parents and carrying two kids, all wearing matching Nebraska's for lover shirts and like shitty visors, like over the top tourist shit.
Speaker B:And they walk in like, are you open?
Speaker B:And Joe yells, yes.
Speaker B:And Ellen yells, no.
Speaker A:And it was a thing or Vice versa.
Speaker A:But, yeah, I mean, I don't understand that.
Speaker A:And then they went to Arby's.
Speaker B:They said they were going to Arby's.
Speaker B:Exactly.
Speaker B:Ye.
Speaker B:It was kind of funny.
Speaker B:It was just very random.
Speaker B:And I just felt like.
Speaker B:Felt very disjointed.
Speaker B:And I'm like, all right, I'm just gonna move on from that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't understand what was there.
Speaker A:But the reason I bring it up and I'll send you the picture is in, like, many years later, Arby.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Talking.
Speaker A:It's hard.
Speaker A:Arby's posted a picture of one of the supernatural symbols in ketchup.
Speaker A:Like the Arby's Twitter did.
Speaker A:Yeah, I'll send it to you.
Speaker B:It's really good.
Speaker B:That's funny.
Speaker B:Go Arby's.
Speaker B:I like Arby's.
Speaker B:Arby's is underrated.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I'm so hungry.
Speaker A:I can eat at Arby's.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker A:Arby's is disgusting.
Speaker A:Except for the fries.
Speaker A:The curly fries are.
Speaker B:Oh, no, I will.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker B:I like an Arby's sandwich with some.
Speaker B:I don't understand Arby's sauce and a bunch of horsey sauce.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But I don't get, like.
Speaker A:I don't know, like, mix both the.
Speaker B:Sauces together and then you dip the fries in that.
Speaker B:So good.
Speaker A:Yeah, but that's a sauce and that's a fries.
Speaker A:But I don't understand, like, the beef situation.
Speaker A:Like, I don't get getting that through drive theory, which is weird.
Speaker B:All right, so back to Star Arby's tangent.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so basically, Joe's done all this research on her own, has figured out this chick went missing, and that there's been actually a bunch of disappearances out of the same building, but they were spread out over so much time that the police haven't been able to connect them.
Speaker B:And it's too spread out to be a serial killer because they're maybe really old.
Speaker B:It doesn't really make sense.
Speaker B:So anyways, so she's established a pattern she figured out herself, but Ellen won't let her go research it.
Speaker B:So the guys are like, I guess we're going, obviously.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And then we're going to shift to.
Speaker B:Another odd choice, the song choice.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:We get Cheap Trick, Surrender.
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:I mean, I love that song, but.
Speaker B:It's a great song.
Speaker B:I was so mad, too.
Speaker B:And, like, I. I don't like.
Speaker B:So even though.
Speaker B:Even though I know a song, I still like Shazam.
Speaker B:Just to make sure I'm not, like, misremembering, because sometimes.
Speaker B:Sometimes I don't play a lot of it.
Speaker B:So I'm trying to, like, double check my stuff and double check online.
Speaker B:And, like, I'm sitting there and I'm like, son of a bitch.
Speaker B:Because Shazam was being slow.
Speaker B:And Dave's like, babe from the other room goes, Cheap Trick Surrender.
Speaker B:Like, thank you.
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker A:I was like, I know this song, damn it.
Speaker A:But anyways, yeah, it's a good.
Speaker A:It's a great song, but.
Speaker A:But I don't.
Speaker A:I don't understand why.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay.
Speaker B:I think it's more like.
Speaker B:What is it?
Speaker A:The.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:Mommy's all right, daddy's all right.
Speaker B:Like, I think.
Speaker B:I think they were trying to do a play on, like, Weird Family.
Speaker B:That's what I thought.
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker A:But that's not what that.
Speaker A:I mean, the song is about weird family.
Speaker A:But no, like, that's a.
Speaker A:There's shit happening in that family.
Speaker A:Go look at the lyrics, guys.
Speaker A:If you have it.
Speaker A:Go read the lyrics.
Speaker A:Okay, so anyways, Cheap chips runner goes.
Speaker A:And they're back in there, and they're touching the ectoplasm.
Speaker A:Why are you touching the ectoplasm?
Speaker A:Ew.
Speaker A:Ew.
Speaker B:Now, how do you not touch it?
Speaker A:What are you saying?
Speaker B:Like, I think it's gross, but I'd still have to fucking touch it too.
Speaker B:If I was in the room, I.
Speaker A:Would touch it with a stick.
Speaker A:I wouldn't.
Speaker A:Like, I would use a pen.
Speaker A:I would use something like, can you.
Speaker B:Put in a toaster and make the toaster dance?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And then we can have a safe buff.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker B:Yeah, I know we got our.
Speaker B:We gotta get a Ghostbusters joke in there.
Speaker B:And I watched part of Ghostbusters this weekend.
Speaker B:It was on TV.
Speaker B:So I was like, oh, Ghostbusters 2, to be specific.
Speaker A:The veto one.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyways, yeah, I don't understand, like, why they touched it because it also looked like Dino's about to lick it.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, yeah, no, I know.
Speaker B:He's, like, looking really close at it, and you're like, oh, no, no, no, sir.
Speaker B:That is off.
Speaker B:That is over the line.
Speaker B:Over the line, yeah.
Speaker B:And I guess, like, so the.
Speaker B:I guess what they're saying is that to have that much ectoplasm, and I guess that much, like, black ectoplasm has to be from a very pissed off spirit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I'm not sure how far we've gotten into this in season two, but, yeah, generally in Supernatural lore, ectoplasm is always black.
Speaker A:Like, it's just.
Speaker A:That's just what ghosts make is just black goofy.
Speaker B:Ew.
Speaker A:It's better than Green Goose.
Speaker A:Let me just be like boogers everywhere.
Speaker A:No, I'm just like slimer, who also looks like boogers.
Speaker A:So, yeah, okay, fair.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:So anyways, and then so they're.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:So they're searching the apartment.
Speaker B:Like, obviously they broke into it.
Speaker B:Duh.
Speaker B:And as they're leaving, they hear someone come up the hall and it's fucking Joe pretending to be looking for an apartment, talking to the landlord, and then pretends like Dean's her boyfriend and Sam's their buddy.
Speaker B:And she hands over rent money, said.
Speaker A:They're moving the in Joe has infiltrated.
Speaker A:I do think it's interesting that she chooses Dean as a boyfriend and doesn't, like, go to Sam.
Speaker A:I'm like, huh, I see what you're doing, girly.
Speaker A:I get.
Speaker A:I get it.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:That was a very intentional decision, obviously.
Speaker B:And then when they get back in the.
Speaker B:In the apartment, Joe.
Speaker B:Joe's mom, Ellen, calls Dean and is like.
Speaker B:And Ellen's like, what the fuck?
Speaker B:Where's my daughter?
Speaker B:She said she's in Vegas.
Speaker B:I don't believe her.
Speaker B:And he's like, I'm gonna tell on her.
Speaker B:He's like, saying beforehand.
Speaker B:He's like, I'm gonna tell on you.
Speaker B:But then he doesn't.
Speaker B:He covers for her.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:See?
Speaker A:But also like, she, like, it is also a very brotherly, sisterly fight that is happening between the two of them, which is.
Speaker A:Yeah, I think you're kind of go through this dynamic, which is why the sexual tension doesn't work there.
Speaker A:So obviously brother and sister, like, in terms of relationship wise.
Speaker A:But also like, Ellen could have heard that, like, guys like,.
Speaker B:Yeah, you're like, barely putting your hand over a shady phone.
Speaker B:Like, at least on like a fucking iPhone, you can put it on mute.
Speaker B:They weren't even doing that.
Speaker B:They're like, barely covering it, like, yelling.
Speaker A:I don't know if we had.
Speaker B:I don't think we did.
Speaker B:I don't remember.
Speaker B:And they ask her what kind of funny part in this point too, is.
Speaker B:They ask her where she had all that money for the.
Speaker B:To pay the rent up front like that in cash.
Speaker B:Like, we know hunters don't tip like that.
Speaker B:I'm like, dam damn.
Speaker B:Hunters really are stingy bastards.
Speaker B:But also she.
Speaker B:And she makes another reference to hustling people in poker, which is pretty funny because we saw her hustle them in.
Speaker B:Hustle a guy playing Big Buck Hunter in the last episode.
Speaker B:And it's funny because Dean always wants to gamble to make money.
Speaker B:And that's how he likes to live on the road if they're not stealing identities.
Speaker B:So it's kind of funny that she's fucking hustling all these.
Speaker B:All these motherfuckers.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker A:Which is why it says, like, sometimes I really like Joe, sometimes I do, but right now I really like her.
Speaker A:So we're going to get to them.
Speaker A:They're out in the hallway, and Joe,.
Speaker B:They're going to go look.
Speaker B:They're going to go look for the spirit.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So Joe calls Dean on his shit.
Speaker A:But his explanation, like, one, I was just like.
Speaker A:Because it really does sound like up.
Speaker B:Until this point, like, oh, you've been like a show, but it's like you're he's man slaying.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then, like, he has a very in depth, thoughtful, touching way about, like, this is why I'm doing this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:She calls him a fucking chauvinist.
Speaker B:And he's like, no, it's.
Speaker B:This isn't.
Speaker B:He says, this isn't gender studies.
Speaker B:But then he goes on, say, it's like, about.
Speaker B:It's a bad experience.
Speaker B:And I know that I've been doing this.
Speaker B:I can't.
Speaker B:You know, I've been doing it so young that I can't really do anything else.
Speaker B:And you don't really want to live this life.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:And you're not experienced enough to do this safely kind of an attitude.
Speaker B:So it actually wasn't like a, you're.
Speaker A:A girl, you can't do it.
Speaker B:It was like, no, this.
Speaker B:This is a hard fucking lifestyle.
Speaker B:I'm fucked up in the head from it.
Speaker B:But this is all I know.
Speaker B:So this is what I do.
Speaker B:And you don't need to go down this path.
Speaker B:It's kind of cool.
Speaker A:Well, you know, and really, I think the safety thing was like the minimal.
Speaker A:It was really more about, you know, this is not the life.
Speaker A:You don't.
Speaker A:If you don't have to choose this life, don't.
Speaker A:Which I think is a very interesting thing considering how much he pushed the life onto Sam for most of this.
Speaker A:And now, like, there's this new person.
Speaker A:And I think you see this shift kind of in Dean's head of like, maybe I should have been doing this all my life.
Speaker A:Like, what if I had other choices?
Speaker A:And so I think this is a very interesting parallel with them.
Speaker B:I agree.
Speaker B:I think it was really interesting too.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Then we get up to some weird green light, what the fuck Is that green light?
Speaker A:I don't.
Speaker A:It's just a reflection of things, but it looks like a green screen.
Speaker A:And I was very confused by it.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker B:They're standing there though, looking in this hallway and he smells something.
Speaker B:Which is really funny when we kind of find out later what it is.
Speaker B:But he smells something.
Speaker B:Well, it's not funny haha, but kind of.
Speaker B:And then we have something, the creepy ass fingers or dirty fingers reaching through this very ornate floor vent grate towards Joe's leg.
Speaker A:I love that you also noticed that it was just like, you know, that was a really cool floor grate.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It's a pretty floor gate.
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:I mean, like, come on.
Speaker B:It could be just like a. I mean, granted, if it was like a traditional grate, they wouldn't be able to reach fingers through it.
Speaker B:So they had to make a fancy, ornate paint one.
Speaker B:But still, I was like.
Speaker A:Well, no, I mean, older ones.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, like, weird.
Speaker A:Like, if you look at older.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:They were just decorative there to be like, don't shove your hand in here.
Speaker A:Not thinking that a hand was going to come the other way.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:About like the.
Speaker B:I just think about like a traditional, like, household, like air vent or air return.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:They don't look that cool at all.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Even in a.
Speaker A:So then we get to like you said, the smell.
Speaker A:And I'm like, what's that smell?
Speaker A:Let's play our game.
Speaker B:And then they used a camera effect here that was really cool.
Speaker B:But I didn't like it because it made it extra creepy.
Speaker B:But it was really cool where they've got like the.
Speaker B:Trying to give it from like the spirit's perspective.
Speaker B:So it's like this like, spirit, like, backing off in the vent from Dean's prying hands as he's trying to reach into the grate.
Speaker A:Also, don't put your hand in that vent.
Speaker A:Why are you putting your hand in that vent?
Speaker A:This seems like a really stupid idea.
Speaker B:Unscrews the grate and just is like reaching in blind reaching around in there.
Speaker B:Like, what the.
Speaker B:The fuck is he gonna do?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker A:But like, yeah, don't stick your hands in holes.
Speaker A:This is why noodling is a bad idea.
Speaker A:We talked about this a couple weeks ago.
Speaker A:Like, you don't know what your hand is gonna get when you put it in there.
Speaker A:Also, ew, hair.
Speaker A:Ew.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He gets a wad of hair and skull.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Not.
Speaker B:Not thrilled with that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So we know.
Speaker B:So now we know there's something in the walls for sure at this point.
Speaker B:And we cut to a scene with another blonde girl, because apparently they only lease apartments to blonde women in this apartment building.
Speaker B:And she's just going through her mail, and all of a sudden she starts getting fucking black grips on her mail.
Speaker A:Yeah, but also, who gets like, a flyer invite for a lingerie party, like, addressed?
Speaker A:And, like, I was like, what fucking friends do you have, girl?
Speaker A:Like, it's like, okay, I'm gonna photocopy this flyer and I'm gonna mail it to you for a lingerie party.
Speaker A:Why the.
Speaker A:Also, why the fuck was this a lingerie party, guys?
Speaker A:Like, I. I sense men writing shit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:We also don't get invitations for lingerie parties.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know if you think, like, we're.
Speaker A:Oh, my God, Diana, what are you doing this weekend?
Speaker A:Well, I'm gonna go to a lingerie party and then we're gonna have a pillow fight and it's gonna be super great.
Speaker A:That's what we're gonna do this weekend.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Not at all.
Speaker A:Back to the ew.
Speaker A:Ew.
Speaker B:Now we get the black goo dripping.
Speaker B:But it is interesting.
Speaker B:Like, it happened in the original one too.
Speaker B:Like, the black goo is, like, dripping from somewhere and they look up and there's like, no source for it.
Speaker B:Really fucking weird.
Speaker B:And I also find it somewhat inexplicable, so I don't really like it.
Speaker B:And then she.
Speaker B:Then, like, her ceiling starts coming apart.
Speaker B:And then her wall starts coming apart.
Speaker B:It's like someone's with, like, a circular saw cutting through the drywall of her ceiling and wal.
Speaker B:Like, this is odd.
Speaker B:And her first reaction is not to run out of the apartment.
Speaker B:It is to run kind of like in a circle towards her phone.
Speaker B:And then her phone doesn't work because, duh.
Speaker B:And then because her power's flickering and it's a wall mounted phone.
Speaker B:Where's your cell phone, girl?
Speaker B:And then her door doesn't work anymore.
Speaker A: That's: Speaker A:But also, no, not the phone.
Speaker A:Like, and I don't care, like, ghost shit, whatever.
Speaker A:Like, there is a crack in my wall happening.
Speaker A:Get the fuck out.
Speaker A:Like, that is my immediate.
Speaker B:Like, I'm watching this.
Speaker B:I'm watching this, like, a line be cut into my ceiling and wall following me in my apartment.
Speaker B:Fuck this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:And then creepy hands reach through her.
Speaker B:Her vent grate.
Speaker B:I think it's kind of weird though.
Speaker B:The hand, the fingers, like, reach through, like, the holes of the grate.
Speaker B:It feels like it would be really easy to get away from that at first.
Speaker B:Unless it's like, is this spirit, like, popping the grate out or is this, like a phantom?
Speaker B:Great.
Speaker B:Like.
Speaker B:Like, I'm kind of confused.
Speaker A:Yeah, I know.
Speaker A:I agree.
Speaker A:That is a weird.
Speaker A:It's a weird thing.
Speaker A:Like, how does he get them in there?
Speaker B:But yeah, it's an odd.
Speaker B:An odd situation with the.
Speaker B:The great access because the screws are on the outside, so it's not like he's unscrewing it, but whatever.
Speaker B:So anyway, so he grabs by the leg and she screams a lot.
Speaker B:And then we cut that scene.
Speaker B:So we get back to the.
Speaker B:Joe.
Speaker B:Joe and the brother's apartment, temporary apartment.
Speaker B:And Dean, or Dean wakes up and sees.
Speaker A:Dean wakes up from a very amazing position in a chair.
Speaker A:Like, that was a great position they had him in.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:He wakes up and he's like, giving Joe shit about having.
Speaker B:Sleeping in a comfy bed.
Speaker B:She's like, I didn't sleep.
Speaker B:It's like, well, bitch, then give someone the bed.
Speaker B:But anyways.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Which is also rude.
Speaker A:Like, I feel like I see you sleeping here.
Speaker A:This is what you do as a friend.
Speaker A:You're like, hey, not sleeping.
Speaker A:Wouldn't you like the bed?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:That's what you do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she said she stayed up all night and didn't sleep.
Speaker B:And working on the.
Speaker B:Trying to piece things together still.
Speaker B:And then Dean, like, kind of talks shit about the knife that she's carrying because she keeps playing with this knife the whole time and trades her, tries to trade her for another knife.
Speaker B:And while he's got it, he looks at it and it figures out that it was a.
Speaker B:It was her dad's knife.
Speaker B:And so it's kind of like this is the tie in now to, like, her father being a hunter.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:They were an awesome.
Speaker A:And then we're gonna get some really touching dad conversations.
Speaker A:So they go through and both of them, like, want to hunt because it makes them feel closer to their dads.
Speaker A:They're just like, aw, see, now we're the Oz.
Speaker A:Then Sam comes back in without coffee, and he is like, oh, there.
Speaker A:Hops outside because there's another girl disappeared.
Speaker A:I'm like, so what?
Speaker A:Why is there no coffee?
Speaker A:Like, I don't give a shit.
Speaker A:Like, what's happening outside.
Speaker A:It's the morning.
Speaker A:Like, you.
Speaker A:You leave and you come back with coffee.
Speaker B:Yeah, I can't process this other bitch being missing until I've had fucking coffee.
Speaker B:I can't solve any of this.
Speaker B:Shit.
Speaker B:Until I've had fucking coffee.
Speaker B:Where's the coffee?
Speaker B:Priorities.
Speaker A:Priorities, Sammy.
Speaker A:Suck.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, yeah, there we go.
Speaker B:Sam fucked up about the coffee.
Speaker B:And they.
Speaker B:They start figuring out and piecing together that maybe the building itself isn't the problem.
Speaker B:Because they've already kind of done this history where, like, it wasn't really, like, it was a empty space.
Speaker B:It was like an empty lot.
Speaker B:Then they built this, like, it was like a factory that became apartments.
Speaker B:Okay?
Speaker B:Big.
Speaker B:Like a lot of cities.
Speaker B:But they look at this other picture when it was an empty lot, and they see bars on the windows of the building next door, and they're like, oh, fuck.
Speaker B:Was this a prison?
Speaker B:It was a prison.
Speaker B:So Joe calls Ash to do a bunch of research about the prison doctor Badass.
Speaker B:And he gives her the lowdown.
Speaker B:And they figured out that basically it was.
Speaker B:It was a prison.
Speaker B:And it was the lot that they built this building on, where the apartments are, was actually, like, where they would do some of the executions.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And now I'm about to get really excited because you're like, it was a prison.
Speaker A:I'm like, no, Diana, it was not a prison.
Speaker A:It was Boy immensely.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker A:Okay, so this fucking prison beyond, like, what we're gonna be.
Speaker A:Diana's pulling her headphones away.
Speaker B:She's like.
Speaker A:Liz is getting.
Speaker A:Liz is about to go off in some shit.
Speaker A:Okay, so one also, this.
Speaker A:You would like this.
Speaker A:This fact about boy Advent.
Speaker A:The architect who built that prison also built the Capitol building.
Speaker A:So there's that.
Speaker A:But like.
Speaker A:So this building had, like, Al Capone was there.
Speaker A:Edgar Allan Poe was there.
Speaker A:And also, as you're about to find out, I'm just gonna spoil this shit.
Speaker A:Cause we're gonna to run.
Speaker A:We're going to run this straight into lore, because this is where we're heading.
Speaker A:You know, this has come.
Speaker A:We're getting there.
Speaker A:Okay, so we also know that Herman Webster Medget was there.
Speaker A:Yes, he was.
Speaker A:And so as we find out, and they say that is H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes.
Speaker A:All right, we got H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:So Sam is really excited about it being HH Holmes as Liz.
Speaker A:But there's some things that are automatically starting that are, like, making Liz kind of angry.
Speaker A:So he did not use chloroform to kill a bunch of people all the time, like they said.
Speaker B:Which is what Dean smelled in the hallway earlier.
Speaker B:That was what it was.
Speaker B:He's like, oh, he used chloroform to subdue people before he killed them.
Speaker B:And he's like, yeah, that's what I smell in the hallway.
Speaker B:Like, Dean knows very well what chloroform smells.
Speaker A:Yeah, Dean, how do you know what chloroform smells like?
Speaker B:Okay, then, sir.
Speaker A:Also, fun fact, chloroform is pretty hard to use on people.
Speaker A:I don't even remember what.
Speaker A:This actually came up in something else I was listening to this week about.
Speaker A:Just like.
Speaker A:Just so you know.
Speaker A:Like, it's like, for the most part, it's difficult to really put people out with it.
Speaker A:Like, you have to know, like, what you're doing.
Speaker A:Like, if you're drunker, it's easier to get somebody to pass out with Gloria Form.
Speaker A:Anyways, so hold on before you.
Speaker B:You're talking about.
Speaker B:You're excited about this building.
Speaker B:So I do have to ask a question.
Speaker B:So, like, it seemed odd to me being in Texas, where our prisons are, like, out in the middle of fucking nowhere, that there's a prison, like, in, like, a downtown.
Speaker A:You've got.
Speaker A:You've got county jail.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You've got the tower, like, in wherever.
Speaker A:So, you know, there's like, New York, like, the tombs.
Speaker A:Like, that's in the middle of the city.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I think about the county jail and then I think about, like, bfe.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, eventually prisons started moving further out just because land was cheaper and just because people were like, I don't want a prison next to me.
Speaker A:Like, I don't.
Speaker A:You know, these are bad people.
Speaker A:We're going to put them somewhere, you know, so.
Speaker A:But yeah, at this time, Moyo Mincing actually was in.
Speaker A:Was in Philadelphia proper.
Speaker B:Sorry to derail you there.
Speaker B:I just had to ask.
Speaker A:No, no, it was cool.
Speaker A:And some other things that I'm just episode stuff that I'm going to kind of combat and then we'll go into the actual lore.
Speaker A:So one of the things, you know, Sam says that, you know, oh, he was, you know, he was encased in concrete.
Speaker A:And he gets really excited about this.
Speaker A:I will highly.
Speaker B:The Murder Castle.
Speaker B:They call his house the Murder Castle slash death Factory, by the way, which I thought were really funny descriptors.
Speaker A:You haven't heard of the Murder Castle?
Speaker B:No.
Speaker A:Oh, shit.
Speaker A:Okay, this lore is gonna get weird.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:So I was like, everybody knows about the Murder Castle.
Speaker A:How do you not know about the Murder Castle?
Speaker A:Okay, so we'll all dive a little bit into that.
Speaker A:It's not really part of this, but I'll go into some ho chunk things.
Speaker A:So what's really cool, though, they said, you know, that he was buried under concrete.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So I would recommend Watching American Ripper.
Speaker A:It's a series you can watch it on.
Speaker A:You can watch on Discovery Plus, I think.
Speaker A:And I think on Amazon prime, which is one of Mudgett's great grandsons, who has this whole theory that H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes was actually Jack the Ripper and goes into this whole timeline of, like, where, like, H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes is unaccounted for at the same time that Ripper slayings were happening.
Speaker A:But at the end of it, they go and they exhume his grave.
Speaker A:And so it's really cool that you, like, if you don't want to watch all the gore and other weird shit that goes into, you can just jump to this.
Speaker A:And there's a bunch of videos online of it.
Speaker A:So when they went and did the grave exhumation, they go and they dig down, down, down, and they find concrete.
Speaker A:And they're like, okay, so this is so, like, there's, you know, this is archaeologists, not just enrolled.
Speaker A:Like, we're pulling people up.
Speaker A:There's a ton of archaeologists.
Speaker A:Like, they're doing this really cool, like, grave shoring thing, which you never see in Supernatural.
Speaker A:They're like, this is gonna collapse.
Speaker A:And so they have, like, these construction people that are shoring up the sides of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, yeah, and they go through this first layer, and they, like, get this concrete, and they get the concrete out, and they found this box.
Speaker A:And the box is fucking empty.
Speaker A:And half the reason they were doing this was because they wanted to figure out if Holmes had escaped, because that was a big theory that was running around for a while that he had.
Speaker A:That he.
Speaker A:That he had basically bribed people during the execution because he had, like, a hood on him.
Speaker B:Faked his death, basically, and got away.
Speaker A:Faked his death.
Speaker A:But then they end up going further down, and there's another layer of concrete underneath that was a coffin where Holmes actually was buried.
Speaker A:And they did a DNA test with his great grandson, and they're like, okay, we can definitively prove that.
Speaker A:That he was buried there.
Speaker A:And this was in Philadelphia.
Speaker A:Like, he really was buried there.
Speaker A:But the Murder Castle.
Speaker A:Yeah, the Myrtle Castle.
Speaker A:Was not in.
Speaker A:Was not in Philly.
Speaker A:So Sam starts going through some of the things about the Murder Castle, and some of them are wrong, some are right.
Speaker A:So I was gonna start this thing off with, like, I think most people know the story of H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes, aka Herman Munster.
Speaker A:Munster.
Speaker A:Not Herman Munster.
Speaker B:That is weird.
Speaker A:Very different.
Speaker A:But I wonder if that's where they got that from.
Speaker B:I hope not.
Speaker B:I like Herman Munster.
Speaker A:I love Herman Munster, but.
Speaker A:Yeah, so Herman Webster budget.
Speaker A:So I would recommend reading the Devil in the White City if you've never read that.
Speaker A:It was a very popular book.
Speaker A:Like, I think it was like Oprah's list at some point.
Speaker A:But really, you know, long story short shirt.
Speaker A:My God, talking is so hard tonight.
Speaker A:So long story short, about AJ Tomes.
Speaker A:He was a swindler.
Speaker A:He was basically a huge con artist.
Speaker A:The thing that he's most well known for was he built this murder castle in Chicago during the World's Fair.
Speaker A:And basically was the theory, like, the big thing that got thrown out of proportion was that he was luring women there to kill them.
Speaker A:And he really did have, like, the place was built with all sorts, different vaults and rooms and other things where people were being killed.
Speaker A:But for the most part, the key was really, we call him America's first serial killer.
Speaker A:But most of the motivations for the people that we know he murdered were really more out of money and convenience because he was running all these cons.
Speaker A:So he was also usually.
Speaker B:That's not usually a motivator for serial killers.
Speaker A:No, not for the most part.
Speaker A:Not for the.
Speaker A:Most of the.
Speaker A:Usually getting some kind of sexual pleasure out of it or something else is, like, triggered it that goes.
Speaker A:And so there are.
Speaker A:I mean, obviously he was really.
Speaker A:He was.
Speaker A:Had a medical practition, so he was really into dissecting.
Speaker A:We talked about the grave robbing a couple episodes ago.
Speaker A:So he was one of the resurrectionists, where he would take, you know, go and take corpses out so they could work on them in med school.
Speaker A:But he definitely had some creepy shit.
Speaker A:Like he, you know, one of his boarding houses, they were like, what's that smell?
Speaker A:Like, oh, it's a dead baby that somebody, like, he.
Speaker A:While he was at school, they're like, oh, you can take this dead baby home and dissect it on your spring break for funsies, you know, like, what do you do on spring break?
Speaker A:Spring break 99 and a second baby.
Speaker A:So, you know, but there is, like I said, there's a lot of things that have been exaggerated, but most of them.
Speaker A:A lot of them have it because he was just a really shitty person.
Speaker A:You know, he basically started off in the east coast, conned a bunch of people.
Speaker A:He's married.
Speaker A:So, like, he was like a fucking bigamist.
Speaker A:Like, there's nobody's business.
Speaker A:Like, he had so many wives, he never divorced, and he would just, like, marry other people.
Speaker A:He was a womanizer.
Speaker A:And so a lot of the women who ended up murdered was because he wanted to move on to the next thing.
Speaker A:And so then he would get rid of them.
Speaker A:And really, one thing I would also like to note now, divorce is just easier.
Speaker B:Yeah, you would say divorce a pain in the ass, but it's just easy.
Speaker A:But then you don't get the insurance money off of them or.
Speaker A:And a lot of like, a lot of the cons he was running, whereas, like, oh, I'll have this woman put her name on this lease.
Speaker B:Gotcha.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But also just to confuse the courts, like, he had so many games running where he was just like.
Speaker A:Oh, like he had like 20 different aliases.
Speaker A:And really it was just.
Speaker A:He was just a fucking conversation, man.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, you know, people like, oh, he was brilliant.
Speaker A:But you go into like, the history of like, him being in school and like, he wasn't that great of a student.
Speaker A:One thing I really wanted to point out that was when he was in med school, a lot of classmates thought that he smelled and they started calling him Shmegma.
Speaker A:So if you don't know what Smegma is, go look up Shmegma.
Speaker A:I'm looking to find that it's real gross.
Speaker A:But I'm going to call him Shmegma for a lot of this because I feel this is much more appropriate name that.
Speaker A:That.
Speaker B:That may have been one of the words that we forbade older family members to Google during a game of cards against humanity.
Speaker A:I would.
Speaker A:Why did you forbid them?
Speaker A:I'd be like, go look up Smegma.
Speaker B:That was that one.
Speaker B:That's the card where the rule was instituted.
Speaker B:If you have to Google it, you have to.
Speaker B:You can't use that card.
Speaker B:You have to burn it and pull a new card out.
Speaker B:That was.
Speaker B:That was the rule at that point.
Speaker B:And no, no, we're not.
Speaker B:We're not Googling that tonight.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, I would take some serpent first choice and explain which Tremegma is my parents, but I'm a weirdo.
Speaker A:So really I think the majority of the things that we know him for is what happened in Chicago and there's variants of how many people actually end up murdered there.
Speaker A:But there was.
Speaker A:There was a.
Speaker A:There was a lot.
Speaker A:And yes, the murder castle was really extensive and.
Speaker A:But I want to say that things to talk a little bit more about where it comes into the end, as most people don't know that too much.
Speaker A:And I will say the end of his shenanigans really take off in Texas.
Speaker A:So he had married or was fake married.
Speaker A:I don't remember which one it was to a woman who had a bunch of land in Fort Worth.
Speaker A:And so he had plans to build another Murder Castle in Fort Worth.
Speaker A:And they actually have the land.
Speaker A:The architecture plans are there.
Speaker A:You can see them.
Speaker A:It's very similar to the Murder Castle in.
Speaker A:In Chicago.
Speaker A:So he's, like, trying to do this, but then he got really greedy and he stole some horses.
Speaker A:And he.
Speaker A:Know what we don't like in Texas?
Speaker B:Horse thieves.
Speaker A:Yeah, you.
Speaker A:Horse thieves.
Speaker A:Like, we're basically.
Speaker A:Texas was like, get out of here.
Speaker B:Don't they.
Speaker B:I mean, like, you.
Speaker B:I think they, like.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:I think it's, like, not enforced, but it's, like, on the books.
Speaker B:You can kill a horse thief still.
Speaker B:It's like, a thing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Or cattle rustlers.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker B:Yeah, don't.
Speaker B:There's a lot of things you can do in Texas, but do not fuck with people's livestock.
Speaker A:Well, actually, it's coming in because there's been a lot of people in Texas and Oklahoma who have been raiding cattle to pay for their meth habits lately.
Speaker A:And so there's a lot of those laws that are coming.
Speaker A:I was like, we're gonna take you down for fucking cattle wrestling, because you can't do it anyways.
Speaker A:So, yeah, he basically tried.
Speaker A:He stole some cattle.
Speaker A:Cattle.
Speaker A:He stole some horses and ran.
Speaker A:They ran the fuck out of Texas.
Speaker A:And things, like, a lot of things ensue in this.
Speaker A:Like, he ends up.
Speaker A:Basically, he had a partner.
Speaker A:He ends up killing his partner.
Speaker A:And everyone thought that he killed him as part of an insurance fraud.
Speaker A:And he wasn't really dead, that the partner wasn't, but he really killed his partner and that he stole the partner's children and told the partner's wife that, like, oh, no.
Speaker A:Like, I'm gonna go take them away.
Speaker A:I forgot what his disease was.
Speaker A:Basically murdering the children, too.
Speaker B:That's fucked.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was already fucked up, but it's, like, hitting extra levels.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, I know.
Speaker A:Like, they think that there's a number of children that ended up, like, being killed on the way.
Speaker A:But really, like I said, like, most of this was for convenience, right?
Speaker A:It was because he was gonna get caught.
Speaker A:So, like, the basic.
Speaker A:He went off with fightsters.
Speaker A:Like, not Pfizer.
Speaker A:That is a medical thing.
Speaker A:It's pretty close to fights or pipes.
Speaker A:Benjamin Feitzel.
Speaker A:So he takes, like, he takes off with three of his children after he dies, after he murdered him.
Speaker A:And so he's on the lam with them and one of his mistresses, and he's keeping, like, the mistress Away from the children.
Speaker A:So the mistress doesn't even know, like, there's other children there.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:So he ends up killing the boy in Indianapolis, and then he kills the girls somewhere else.
Speaker A:And, like, he gassed the girl and, like, the boy ended up getting burned in the stove.
Speaker A:It was real fucked up.
Speaker A:But anyway, so he ends up going on trial in Philadelphia for the murder of his partner.
Speaker A:And when he is there, that's when they start.
Speaker A:Like, he was already, like, in a lot of trouble with the law for all of the con schemes, right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is where they start piecing together that he's a murderous bastard.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so he's got, like, all sorts of people that are running after him.
Speaker A:Pinkerton's like, we've got, like, all sorts of, like, law people that are trying to take him down.
Speaker A:So he ends up going on trial in Philadelphia and gets, you know, convicted for murder and.
Speaker A:But his story doesn't end with the murder.
Speaker A:Like, this is what I want to get into the fun things, which is the curse of H.H.
Speaker A:Holmes, Lore.
Speaker B:Lord.
Speaker A:Yeah, this is real bore.
Speaker A:The other time, it's just me rambling off about a serial killer, and it makes a lot more sense.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A: So he ends up on trial in: Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So this is when he's in Philly there.
Speaker A: nd through the time period of: Speaker A:And most versions of the legend, at the end of his trial, when he was pronounced guilty, Holmes turned and looked at the courtroom and said, my curse is upon you.
Speaker A:Or maybe he was just coughing.
Speaker A:So that was what most of these peers are like.
Speaker A:Yeah, he was coughing a lot.
Speaker A:And so they're like, me just said, but, you know, also could be like, my curse is upon you.
Speaker A:You know, you get those confused.
Speaker A:Cursed.
Speaker A:Anyhow, so the first one that gets mentioned is Holmes, trial lawyer, who did get disbarred for a year after the trial because he was really shady and, like, this is really bad luck.
Speaker A:And like, well, he was committing illegal shit.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker A:I just don't think that.
Speaker A:It doesn't sound like Holmes would have,.
Speaker B:Like, the most, like, up and up attorney.
Speaker A:Oh, no, it was not.
Speaker A:Basically, he was trying to get somebody to lie on.
Speaker A:On either an affidavit on the stand, like, oh, no, he wasn't there.
Speaker A:It was fine.
Speaker A:So he ended up getting caught for that and gets his part.
Speaker A:And then, you know, the judge who's residing got really Sick.
Speaker A:Sick.
Speaker A:But he lived for another eight years and then he died of rectal cancer.
Speaker A:That's a harsh one to get.
Speaker A:Oh, man.
Speaker A:The assistant assistant district attorney got brain fever, but he also didn't die.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So you can get brain fever, not die.
Speaker A:I actually don't know what brain fever is.
Speaker A:It just sounds bad.
Speaker A:It sounds like your head's on fire.
Speaker A:But I want to get to the juicy ones.
Speaker B:Right, so has to do with brain inflammation.
Speaker B:That's what I got.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:Yeah, thanks for the Google.
Speaker A:So his head was swelling or something.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But before Holmes is even executed.
Speaker A: ight, so he gets convicted in: Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:But after the verdict, the doctor who performed Peitzel's autopsy died of blood poisoning that was likely caused from performing autopsies without blood gloves on, which is a terrible idea.
Speaker A:But the gloves, like, they didn't have our thin nylon gloves just had really big ones.
Speaker A:So most of them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So you couldn't.
Speaker A:Foreigners.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You couldn't like, be like doing fine.
Speaker A:You couldn't be digging into corpses.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So most of them, like a lot of these guys would just throw their gloves off.
Speaker A:And that's how you get blood poisoning.
Speaker A:His kidneys and liver were riddled with abscesses and they ruptured and killed him.
Speaker A:Ew.
Speaker A:See, one of the jurors was electrocuted after phone wires hit his tent roof.
Speaker A:So basically he was like, what's that noise?
Speaker A:I'm going to look to see what this are.
Speaker A:And so he got electrocuted and died.
Speaker A:One of the residents of the castle, and this one's kind of reaching, but she was a 25 year old, Anna Harvey.
Speaker A:So this is Chicago resident.
Speaker A:She was found decomposing in a ditch apparently after she committed suicide by carbolic acid.
Speaker A:That's an interesting way to take yourself out.
Speaker A:And the father of one of the victims was going to travel to Philadelphia to get answers from Shmegma and maybe to see him hang.
Speaker A:But he was killed in a freak gas explosion before he could go.
Speaker A:All right, so that's before he died.
Speaker A:So we already have like four people who are dead before he's even.
Speaker A:Before he's even hanging.
Speaker A:All right, so he hangs and he.
Speaker A: ,: Speaker A:All right, so then in September.
Speaker A:That's May.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:He dies that in September, one of his lawyers died of heart disease.
Speaker A:He was only 40.
Speaker A:In November, the superintendent of the prison where Holmes died.
Speaker A:So Moya minting The one that's in this episode, he committed suicide by shooting, which was the cause that was, you know, he basically shot himself in the head.
Speaker A:He said he'd been, you know, he was suffering from insomnia.
Speaker A:Somebody asked him then, like, how did you sleep?
Speaker A:And he was like, not well.
Speaker A:And then he put a gun to his head and shot himself.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But he killed himself in Moy Minsing.
Speaker A:So he killed himself in that prison.
Speaker B:Yikes.
Speaker A: Then in October of: Speaker A:So this is a year later, the priest who was Holmes's spiritual advisor was found with a skull fractured, nose broken, and other bruises on his face.
Speaker A:The coroner's inquest said it was natural causes, that he had kidney disease and he had water on the brain, which makes you delirious, and that he fell on his face when he passed out.
Speaker A:But also his watch and his purse were stolen.
Speaker A:So they kind of got into this thing about whether or not the coroner was covering up a murder.
Speaker A:But also he could have also just died in an alley and then somebody stole his shit.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, you know, it's philly.
Speaker A: So in: Speaker A:He shot himself in the head on his ex wife's front doorstep.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Which is, dude, if you have a problem with your ex wife, don't do that, man.
Speaker A:That's fucked up.
Speaker A:Now she's got to clean up your brains.
Speaker A:So six months after that, one of the jurors killed himself by inhaling illuminating gas.
Speaker A:I don't know what eliminating gas is.
Speaker A:It sounds pretty, but apparently you can kill yourself if you inhale.
Speaker A:Is interesting to note to you that all the suicides that we talked about in this, they all have temporary insanity on their death certificates.
Speaker A:And I don't know if it was just a thing at a time, but it was like, oh, everyone went crazy.
Speaker A:So two weeks after that juror suicide, the detective who helped bring down Schmegma, he died of carcinoma to the face.
Speaker A:Like, that is.
Speaker A:That is a fucked up way to go.
Speaker A:Like, answer the face.
Speaker A: And the Last one, in: Speaker A:And when he did, he would wake up screaming and complaining of hallucinations.
Speaker A:He left a note that said, I could not sleep and killed himself with strychnine.
Speaker B:That's kind of like more than once somebody said they couldn't sleep, but that's.
Speaker A:That's yeah, there's a lot of them that go through, because that's the temporary insanity thing to you.
Speaker A:And all the suicides.
Speaker A:There are all these people who said they couldn't sleep.
Speaker B:Illuminating gas, for the record, is an alternative to, like, natural gift gas.
Speaker B:It's used for, like, lanterns.
Speaker B:So it's like gas, but it's carbon monoxide poisoning.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Basically.
Speaker B:I mean, I'm sure that's how it would work.
Speaker B:Sorry.
Speaker B:It sounds pretty illuminating gas.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is, as an ethene.
Speaker B:There we go.
Speaker A:So that's the Holmes curse.
Speaker A:And obviously, when we get to.
Speaker A:I'll have many comments to make about how Holmes is portrayed through the most of this episode soon.
Speaker B:Yeah, I'm really fascinated now.
Speaker B:I want to know where the site of the murder house in Fort Worth was supposed to be.
Speaker B:I'm should look that up.
Speaker A:Yeah, I can get you.
Speaker A:I can get you the address.
Speaker B:I can get you that address.
Speaker A:We can go check that out.
Speaker B:I know we didn't make it to Fort Worth last time when you were in here.
Speaker B:Last worth.
Speaker B:We got to do Fort Worth and go to the stockyards.
Speaker B:Go look basements and all those crazy.
Speaker A:Yeah, and there's some crazy in the stockers.
Speaker A:Lots of dead cow ghosts.
Speaker A:I'm sure the cow ghost.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:All right, so back to where we were.
Speaker A:All right, so they figure out that it's HH Cholmes and that he is likely hiding girls in the walls.
Speaker A:And so again, I'm like.
Speaker B:So now they have to go.
Speaker B:Now they have to go on the walls.
Speaker A:And this is where I start going.
Speaker A:So much claustrophobia.
Speaker A:So much claustrophobia.
Speaker B:And I don't think I'm claustrophobic in general, but, like, these types of things where, like, you can't.
Speaker B:And it sounds dumb.
Speaker B:We can't get out.
Speaker B:Well, obviously, that's claustrophobic.
Speaker B:This shit freaks me.
Speaker B:The out.
Speaker B:Do not like it at all.
Speaker B:So they go.
Speaker B:Sam, apparently, is on another floor searching the walls with his broken arm.
Speaker B:Still, by the way, I didn't notice his cap.
Speaker B:And Dean and Joe together are going through the walls.
Speaker B:And then it gets real narrow.
Speaker B:And there's a real creepy comment meant from Dean.
Speaker A:I didn't.
Speaker A:And I.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:And I'm a pervert.
Speaker A:And I didn't really understand.
Speaker A:I should have cleaned the pipes.
Speaker A:I was like, does that mean he should have come?
Speaker A:Like, I don't.
Speaker B:He should have.
Speaker B:It means he should have.
Speaker B:It's like, clean the pipes.
Speaker B:Like what?
Speaker B:Like the old, like, joke about guys before they go on Like a first date, they go jerk off before they go out with like a chick because they're gonna be all turned on by some chick they want to bang.
Speaker B:So he's basically saying he should have jerked off before getting in the walls with J. Joe.
Speaker A:Silence.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what happened there.
Speaker B:I'm just saying.
Speaker A:Well, I thought it was, but I was like, no, that can't.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's what that was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then he also played off like, oh, the pipes down here are just really dirty.
Speaker B:Okay, gross.
Speaker B:Anyways, yeah, that was super gross.
Speaker A:Dean.
Speaker A:I'm revoking your douchiness.
Speaker A:Like now.
Speaker A:We gotta, we gotta.
Speaker A:You've gone way up in douchey scale.
Speaker B:And it's even worse because like you were just talking about them being brother and sister.
Speaker B:And I'm like, or I really have relationship.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, no, no, ma'.
Speaker A:Am.
Speaker B:But it's okay.
Speaker B:So they.
Speaker B:Anyways, but she can fit through the smaller part of the.
Speaker B:Of the wall.
Speaker B:So she goes by herself, which is fucking dumb, as we all know.
Speaker B:It's a terrible fucking idea.
Speaker B:And they're trying to like stay connected by cell phone because you know that's going to work really well in a old ass building inside the walls with shitty old cell phones.
Speaker B:Not going to work well.
Speaker A:Well, it wasn't.
Speaker A:I did make a comment right there.
Speaker A:I was like, these cell phones are getting remarkable service.
Speaker A:Like you're in a wall.
Speaker B:And I say that that's not gonna work.
Speaker B:Funny enough.
Speaker B:I'm like, at this point, I was like, it's not gonna work.
Speaker B:And they actually did until it was too late.
Speaker A:Until they didn't.
Speaker A:But I was like, I was thinking that they should.
Speaker A:At this time, they should have had the Nexus Sidekick or whatever one that had like the walking on it.
Speaker A:Like that's what you.
Speaker A:That's what the hunters need overall.
Speaker A:Like you just need that walking phone.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, you can pick up radio signal.
Speaker B:It's probably perfect.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So anyway, so she crawls down like some fucking.
Speaker B:She calls like an air duct.
Speaker B:It doesn't look like an air duct.
Speaker B:It's some pipes that like go downstairs into a dark hole that she cannot see what's down there.
Speaker B:So she's going by herself into that terrible idea.
Speaker B:Once again.
Speaker B:This is already bad enough.
Speaker B:And also I am watching this.
Speaker B:I've got my hand in front of my face, like with like my fingers spread so I can cover my face while I'm watching all this.
Speaker B:Because I know some shit's about to happen.
Speaker B:And so he Dean goes back out of the wall and runs down, down, because he's got to go downstairs and figure out where the in the wall she is since he couldn't follow her.
Speaker B:And while she's sitting in the hall, Black Goose starts coming through the wall at her and she screams.
Speaker B:And so Dean starts hacking into the wall and makes a hole in the wall and sees her phone on the ground, but she's gone.
Speaker A:But it also seems really dangerous.
Speaker A:Like you don't know where she is.
Speaker A:Like, oh, oops, sorry.
Speaker B:This episode would have taken a very different turn.
Speaker A:And then like, how did Joe die?
Speaker A:Well, Dean was trying to.
Speaker A:Yeah, he just hammered into the.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was bad.
Speaker B:We were trying to catch the spirit, but she got in the way and got hit with an ax.
Speaker B:It was a thing.
Speaker B:Anyway, so Dean's got it.
Speaker B:Dean catched up with Sam.
Speaker B:And while they get together, Ellen calls.
Speaker B:Because, of course, now Ellen calls and finds out that she tells them that Ash spilled the beans.
Speaker B:Bad Ash scolding ash.
Speaker B:Bad Dr. Badass.
Speaker A:Dead.
Speaker A:Bad Dr. Badass.
Speaker A:I'd have to hold you by your mullet and punish you.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:So Dean's trying to, like, play off like, no, she's just taking care of feminine business.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, boys are stupid.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B:And Ellen.
Speaker B:Ellen doesn't buy, obviously, because she's a woman.
Speaker B:And Dean tells her that they're going to get Joe back.
Speaker B:Basically said that, you know, that.
Speaker B:That they're.
Speaker B:She was the.
Speaker B:She got taken by the spirit.
Speaker B:They were hunting.
Speaker B:So they're have to get her back.
Speaker B:That's the summary.
Speaker B:And Ellen's like, that's not the first time I've heard that from a Winchester kind of a reference.
Speaker A:If.
Speaker A:And we're like, well, this is foreshadowing or something.
Speaker A:And like.
Speaker A:And there's kind of been hints of this up until now.
Speaker B:Like, I think there's some tension.
Speaker B:Like, you can tell Ellen likes the brothers and is trying to give them a little bit of chance, but she doesn't want her daughter mixed up too much with them and doesn't, like, fully trust their judgment and has obviously, while she doesn't like, hey, John, she doesn't fully.
Speaker B:Didn't fully trust him either.
Speaker B:Does that make a good kind of a read at this point?
Speaker A:Yeah, I mean, she was.
Speaker A:She was sad when he died, but she wasn't like, oh, my God, he's dead.
Speaker A:You know, and we can obviously tell that they haven't been.
Speaker A:The boys had never heard of them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And so there's a reason this tension was there.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:Well, we'll get there.
Speaker B:We'll get there, but.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So Ellen says she's flying in, and that's what it is.
Speaker B:So in the midst of this, Sam's still researching, and he's like, look, maybe we got this wrong about the balls.
Speaker B:And there's not a basement in this building, but there's some old fucking sewers.
Speaker B:Let's go to the old sewers, which is a really elaborate sewer system that they're going to go down to this map.
Speaker B:Even it looks elaborate.
Speaker A:Well, also, Santa goddess said this was an abandoned sewer system, Right.
Speaker B:No longer in use there.
Speaker B:No one's.
Speaker B:No one's crawling in shit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:At least we didn't have to add poo to the ooh.
Speaker A:Like, that would have been.
Speaker B:Oh, ectoplasm and shit.
Speaker B:There you go.
Speaker A:That's a good time.
Speaker A:Time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker A:So Joe's.
Speaker A:Yeah, go ahead.
Speaker B:No, you got it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Joe's gonna wake up in an even more claustrophobic space that place it.
Speaker A:It up the ass.
Speaker A:Like, no, no.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You see, like, all the scratches in, like, she.
Speaker B:It's like, basically a coffin shape.
Speaker B:Like, she's, like, has to lay down, and it's, like, the length of her body, and it's.
Speaker B:It's coffin E. Does that make sense?
Speaker B:And then it's in all the scratch.
Speaker B:Bloody scratches in, like, the ceiling of it from people trying to escape.
Speaker B:That's upsetting.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So upsetting.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:I don't like it.
Speaker B:And then.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So she kind of hears, like, a noise, though, and so she says hello.
Speaker B:And they figure she figured out Theresa is still there.
Speaker B:That was the.
Speaker B:The girl that was.
Speaker B:That disappeared while she was checking her mail.
Speaker B:She's in there, too.
Speaker B:She's still alive.
Speaker B:And she's not in her lingerie.
Speaker A:She did not get her lingerie apart.
Speaker B:She totally missed the lingerie party.
Speaker B:And she did not RSVP whether she was going or not, which is just really rude.
Speaker A:It is rude.
Speaker A:But I do think it's interesting here.
Speaker A:Like, once Joe realizes Theresa is there, like, she gets so much more calm.
Speaker A:And I'm probably the same way, too.
Speaker A:Like, once I have to take care of somebody else, like, I'm like, you take care of business.
Speaker A:Like, I have to keep her calm.
Speaker A:And so I think that gives, like, Joe that leverage to be like, okay, now I need to figure out, like, stop losing my shit.
Speaker A:I have somebody to help her.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And then a spirit reaches in through the fucking grate in her little crave thingy.
Speaker B:And grabbed a chunk of her hair.
Speaker A:Man, stop ripping out hair, you fucking dick.
Speaker A:Like, that's just rude.
Speaker B:So rude.
Speaker B:And so now the brothers look totally inconspicuous.
Speaker B:We got Sam and Dean walking down the streets of Philadelphia with a metal detector and a shovel.
Speaker A:Duh.
Speaker A:Fuck.
Speaker A:Also, like, where'd you get the metal detector?
Speaker A:I'm like, cool.
Speaker A:Like, you just.
Speaker A:I don't know where to buy a metal.
Speaker A:Metal detector.
Speaker A:Like, is there a metal detector store?
Speaker A:Like, I don't think they sell those at Home Depot.
Speaker B:Can you go to, like, like a sporting goods store?
Speaker B:Does, like, Academy or Dick sell?
Speaker A:Well, also, this is Philadelphia.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're in the middle of a city.
Speaker A:They're not in the suburbs.
Speaker A:There's no big box store.
Speaker A:So, like, that does not exist there.
Speaker A:So, like, they have to go to, like, South Philly?
Speaker B:They didn't go to Walmart, Is that what you're saying?
Speaker A:Yeah, there's no Walmart in South Philly or wherever they're at.
Speaker A:And it was like, hey, man, do you have a metal.
Speaker A:Like, where the fuck did you get a metal detector?
Speaker B:Could it have been in trunk team?
Speaker A:Trunk.
Speaker A:Trunk.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:And also, wouldn't that just be going off like every two seconds?
Speaker A:Like, city.
Speaker A:Like, here's a penny, here's a penny, here's a penny.
Speaker B:Like, yeah, here's.
Speaker B:Here's a paperclip.
Speaker B:Like, what the fuck?
Speaker B:Like, I mean, yeah, no one's like,.
Speaker A:There's not like a very good.
Speaker A:Like, I know how long it took the city of Philadel plow my streets when there was snow.
Speaker A:I really doubt those streets are so clean that, like, they wouldn't be going off like, every 10 seconds.
Speaker A:Like, here's a crack bite, here's a crack bite.
Speaker A:So I guess my crack pipes alert on a.
Speaker A:So anyhow, okay, so we've got.
Speaker A:We've got a metal detector and a shovel and they find a hole.
Speaker A:Good for you guys.
Speaker B:Well, they find.
Speaker B:They find a grassy lot by an alley, which is a very small lot.
Speaker B:And I'm sure, sure that property value is fucking insane.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, that's like a $2 million plot of land.
Speaker A:I'm like, what?
Speaker B:They found an empty grassy lot in the middle of a metropolitan city.
Speaker B:That shit's worth fucking bank anyways.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But they start digging.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, this is unreasonable.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:They're going to dig down to the sewer, and then all of a sudden they just like.
Speaker B:Like, after, like, two shovels, they hit, like, the metal covering for the access point.
Speaker B:I'M like, okay, much more believable.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:You go with that.
Speaker A:That's believable.
Speaker B:But more so than him digging like a 30 foot hole down to the sewer line?
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Fair, fair.
Speaker B:I thought that's where they were going with this.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh, come on.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so then they open it up and there's like these like metals rods and like this is the most well constructed like sewer system ever.
Speaker B:Like, and these giant bugs.
Speaker B:Did you see those?
Speaker A:Like, I didn't see the bugs.
Speaker B:There was two like huge like unreasonably large cockroaches in there.
Speaker A:That's Philly.
Speaker B:They're like the size of rats.
Speaker B:I was like what the.
Speaker A:But yeah, yeah, that's pretty much.
Speaker A:That's all affiliates full of big ass cockroaches.
Speaker B:But you're right, it wasn't really well constructed.
Speaker B:Very like very aesthetic.
Speaker A:Because I would, I would not have like walked down those.
Speaker A:Like that ladder.
Speaker A:Like that seems like it's gonna rope because I don't trust that these things that have been in the wall for 100 years are still gonna be like well placed and they're not going to fall down as soon as I put my 200 pound six foot ass.
Speaker A:Like they're not tiny boys.
Speaker A:They are not.
Speaker A:And but yet, okay, somehow they.
Speaker A:They go down and they crawling down.
Speaker B:And Dean starts going down first and Sam following behind him with his poor broken wrist.
Speaker B:We cut back to Joe and she keeps like just beating on the walls of her little like.
Speaker B:I don't know, it's like a.
Speaker B:It's like a coffin cave.
Speaker B:Like I don't know what to call this thing.
Speaker B:Like this enclosure.
Speaker B:I don't have a word.
Speaker A:So I think when we get to the point where they open it up you can kind of see a little bit better like what it was.
Speaker A:And it almost looks a little mausoleumy, but I think it's more like probably just storage.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So had a little vent on it.
Speaker A:But yeah, it was like the initial.
Speaker A:The original city basement.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So here is this place where you can stick things.
Speaker A:But why it's in the sewer, I don't know.
Speaker B:It was very weird.
Speaker B:This is a very like conveniently constructed place for someone to kidnap and store were girls to kill them.
Speaker B:It was very well constructed for that purpose.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:You know, and which is that, is that will go into Holmes's M.O.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And then they get into the ew.
Speaker A:Ghost molestation.
Speaker B:Oh yeah.
Speaker A:He's like.
Speaker B:And he's like whispering how pretty and beautiful she Is like.
Speaker B:And he's touching her face and her neck down her arm.
Speaker B:And then she stabs him in the arm.
Speaker B:Arm with her.
Speaker A:Damn straight.
Speaker A:You sound that Daddy's.
Speaker B:Daddy's.
Speaker B:Daddy's a iron.
Speaker A:Don't call it daddy's knife.
Speaker A:That sounds weird.
Speaker B:I didn't mean it like that.
Speaker B:Her.
Speaker B:Her hunter father's knife that she carries.
Speaker B:She stabs the ghost in the arm with it, and the arm, like, yells and, like, dissipates and she's like, iron.
Speaker A:It's pure iron.
Speaker A:Bitch.
Speaker A:They just said fucking, but I think was in there.
Speaker A:So she's mad.
Speaker A:She's mad.
Speaker B:And then we go back to super duper, duper, duper, duper, Claustrophobia.
Speaker B:Crawling, Dean.
Speaker B:Crawling through this tunnel.
Speaker B:That's the shit that freaks me the fuck out.
Speaker B:Like, because what if you get stuck?
Speaker A:What if you had to back out?
Speaker A:Also, if I'm crawling in a tunnel, I'm not having a loaded gun in front of me to use as my leverage point.
Speaker A:As I'm, like, walking through this seems very unsafe.
Speaker B:Like, you know, we don't think safety's on and stuff.
Speaker A:No, safety just makes your gun an expensive hammer.
Speaker A:But, I mean, I know he probably has some good, you know, trigger maintenance.
Speaker A:You know, he's not his fingers in there.
Speaker A:But this seems like a recipe for disaster.
Speaker A:And I feel like Sam is behind him with another gun and his broken hand is just like, no, guys.
Speaker A:Like, this is the time you can put it in your pants.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker B:Just put it in your pants.
Speaker B:This is the one time you're allowed to put in your pants without having a holster.
Speaker B:We'll.
Speaker B:We'll let it slide this.
Speaker B:We'll let it go.
Speaker A:But then also, I guess that it could get caught.
Speaker A:Like, as you're crawling through and then your gun goes off and shoots your brother.
Speaker A:Okay, never mind.
Speaker A:I'm going down.
Speaker B:There's no good solution here at all.
Speaker B:So it's just uncomfortable and unsafe.
Speaker B:Gun carrying through a very, very, very claustrophobic tunnel freaked me out.
Speaker B:That's the kind of stuff I'm like.
Speaker B:Like, that gives me the heebie jeebies so bad.
Speaker B:And the other thing I would like.
Speaker A:To point out is they have to go back through that t tuttle with.
Speaker A:With what happens next.
Speaker A:Like, think about that.
Speaker A:They got down there.
Speaker A:How the did they get out?
Speaker B:I know.
Speaker B:I didn't want to think about that.
Speaker B:So freaky.
Speaker B:So Joe is back to Joe.
Speaker B:She's in her little mini tomb thingy, enclosure, whatever, and she's kind of peeking out and Then all of a sudden, the spirit jumps up and covers her mouth, and it's really creepy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:No, the ghost suffocation.
Speaker A:I did not like it.
Speaker A:I didn't like it at all.
Speaker A:I didn't like it with ham.
Speaker A:I do not like it on a boat.
Speaker A:I do not like it with whatever.
Speaker A:But also, like, that's pretty hardcore that, you know, a ghost could, like, kill you that way.
Speaker A:Like, that is.
Speaker A:And to be suffocated in that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:I don't like a bunch of this.
Speaker B:And then guess who shows up through the tunnel.
Speaker A:Oh, you get saved by the big, strong men.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker B:With a shotgun blast.
Speaker A:Everyone loves a good rock salt blast.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And then they're like, you're gonna be bait.
Speaker A:I would have been like, oh, you're free.
Speaker B:And she's like, yay, let's escape.
Speaker B:And they're like, nah, the only way we can finish this off is for you to be our bait like you wanted to be originally.
Speaker A:She's like, oh, damn it.
Speaker A:Damn it.
Speaker A:I did say I could do this.
Speaker A:I guess I. I guess I can.
Speaker B:It was her idea to be bait from the beginning.
Speaker B:That's what she wanted to do.
Speaker A:And I'm like, no, sorry.
Speaker A:Just, like, tell the people, like, to not rent this out to blondes anymore.
Speaker A:Like, we're cool.
Speaker B:Like, we're just like, a lease addendum.
Speaker B:No blondes allowed.
Speaker A:No blondes.
Speaker A:When she comes into this very weird, like, you know, law of, like, I don't know.
Speaker A:Anyhow, okay, so she is gonna be bait.
Speaker A:Yay.
Speaker B:And they set this really kind of interesting trap, actually.
Speaker B:So they put her in the middle of, like, the sewer thing, which had, like, the little.
Speaker B:Little tunnels off of it for the.
Speaker B:Their escape tunnel, some other tunnels, and then, like, these little storage containers that he's got girls in, some dead, some alive.
Speaker B:Teresa being alive.
Speaker B:They get Theresa out, she escapes.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker B:And then it's her and the brothers in this in the middle of the sewer, central location.
Speaker B:She's sitting there, just waiting for the fucking spirit to show up.
Speaker B:And the guys are hiding, and as soon as he gets, like, close enough to her, they say, like, now.
Speaker B:And they blast him.
Speaker B:Go fuck.
Speaker B:Going blasting.
Speaker B:And when they go in blasting, they, like, it's like a trap where they knock down salt to enclose the area so the spirit can't escape this little central part of this, the sewer.
Speaker A:So devil's advocate, and obviously I'm always a devil's advocate, but so did they crawl back out through the tunnel, go get salt, then Bring the salt back, then set this up.
Speaker A:I'm like, okay, how does this bend?
Speaker A:Maybe.
Speaker B:Maybe.
Speaker B:Well, Sam had stuff with him when he was crawling down.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Maybe he had a bag with salt.
Speaker A:Sure.
Speaker B:Whatever.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It's a good ghost trap.
Speaker B:It was clever.
Speaker B:I liked the fact that it was a good ghost trap.
Speaker B:I was amused.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker A:And, like.
Speaker B:And then the spirit is.
Speaker B:Holmes is very upset.
Speaker B:He does a lot of yelling.
Speaker B:Very.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Also home.
Speaker A:So it's not that beardy.
Speaker A:Even when he died, he wasn't that beardy.
Speaker A:There's a lot.
Speaker A:I was just like, no, he was.
Speaker A:Anyhow, okay.
Speaker A:So he is now caught.
Speaker A:He is caught in an assault trap.
Speaker A:And we're gonna go back up to the upside of the world.
Speaker A:And then Sam and Joe have some combos.
Speaker A:I guess this is also.
Speaker A:Really.
Speaker B:But first.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Before they.
Speaker B:They're talking a little bit and that.
Speaker B:Like, it's worth it.
Speaker B:She thinks that it was all worth it because Teresa gets a new life now or gets to continue her life, whatever.
Speaker B:But, like, I'm very, like, not sold on this, like, solution to the spirit issue.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker B:Dean rolls up with a cement truck.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:So the whole thing is they can't.
Speaker A:Oh, I thought we were.
Speaker A:I was building up to the cement truck because I'm super jealous that he has a cement truck.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, okay, you're excited about the cement truck.
Speaker B:I'm just going straight to the cement truck.
Speaker B:So the whole thing is, they can't go dig up Holmes's bones and burn them because they're in concrete.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:That's their.
Speaker B:That's the story.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:So now their solution to his trapped spirit is to dump concrete into this sewer system.
Speaker B:Because they're like, well, we don't want it to get, like, the salt to get washed away or whatever over time or somebody find whatever it is.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But, like, can you encase a spirit in concrete?
Speaker B:Is that.
Speaker A:How could you encase a salt in concrete?
Speaker A:I mean, would that.
Speaker B:Is the salt gonna move when the concrete hits it?
Speaker A:I don't know.
Speaker B:I was very, like, not.
Speaker B:I did not feel resolved by this, see?
Speaker A:Whereas I felt satisfied because I got to pour cement down at hold.
Speaker A:I really wouldn't do that.
Speaker A:Like, that looks like so much fun.
Speaker A:You got steel cement trunk, and then you got to drive it, and then you got to throw something.
Speaker A:Like, throw cement down a hole?
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Like, this is the best day ever.
Speaker B:And are they throwing it all the way down that, like, tube they crawled down?
Speaker B:Because then that's got to Go all the way down the tunnel.
Speaker A:That is a lot of cement.
Speaker A:Yeah, that is.
Speaker B:And then it's going to move as it goes into that room.
Speaker B:It's going to come in from the side.
Speaker B:It's going to move the salt out of the way.
Speaker B:Very not.
Speaker B:And then is it spirit when they get encased in cement?
Speaker B:Is it like, does it go through them because they're a fucking spirit and they're.
Speaker B:I must.
Speaker B:I'm not solid.
Speaker B:Or is it like some Pompeii shit and it's like this form of a spirit.
Speaker B:Like, I don't know and I don't have answers.
Speaker B:And I'm very, very, very concerned about these things.
Speaker A:Now I really want some pictures of a spirit in Pompeii style.
Speaker A:Like this hh.
Speaker B:Stuck in place.
Speaker B:Like that's.
Speaker B:You know what I mean?
Speaker A:Like, that's.
Speaker A:Yeah, there are some.
Speaker A:There are some problematic things with how this ended, but also when they got to.
Speaker A:To throw cement down a hole, which is probably what they were thinking because they're dudes and they're like, I need.
Speaker B:To throw cement down a hole.
Speaker A:They're like, I don't know if this will work, but you know, hey, we're gonna leave town.
Speaker A:Who gives a shit?
Speaker A:Like, it's not gonna come back for 10 years.
Speaker A:Because, you know, this ghost only hits every 10 years.
Speaker A:We killed all the blondes.
Speaker A:Like, it'll be fine.
Speaker A:But he went after like three in.
Speaker B:Like a two week, two day period.
Speaker A:Yeah, there's some issues.
Speaker B:I'm just saying.
Speaker B:So anyways, well, then we cut to.
Speaker B:They're cruising in, baby, like we do at the end of the episode.
Speaker B:They're going back, going home or going to their next location.
Speaker B:Only this time it's Sam, Dean, Ellen, and Joe.
Speaker B:And it is awkward because they're like, oh, yeah, you weren't joking about flying in.
Speaker B:No, Ellen was serious about coming to fly in to get her daughter back.
Speaker B:And de decides to put on music.
Speaker B:And it's really funny.
Speaker B:Get like just a little tiny bit of Cold as Ice by Foreigner.
Speaker A:It's really funny.
Speaker B:And Ellen turns it off very quickly.
Speaker B:And so that's just gonna be a really awkward drive.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I would not want to be in that car.
Speaker A:That seems like a terrible car to be in.
Speaker A:And I was really like, nope.
Speaker A:I would like.
Speaker A:And that's before, like, you I would find a book.
Speaker A:Like, there's no.
Speaker A:Like, you didn't have a Kindle then.
Speaker A:You didn't have an iPad to look at.
Speaker A:Like, you're just stuck.
Speaker B:No Podcast.
Speaker B:You're fucked.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Awkward.
Speaker B:So anyways, they get back to Liz's favorite location so far, once again, Roadhouse.
Speaker B:And Dean's trying to explain to Ellen what a good job that Joe really did.
Speaker B:And she's like, I don't want to hear it.
Speaker B:I'm not interested in this and I need to talk to my daughter.
Speaker B:And so basically we don't hear like the whole whole thing, but Ellen implies to.
Speaker B:Implies to Joe that they're.
Speaker B:That her father, Ellen's husband, Joe's father, died because of John Winchester in a fucked up mission as hunters.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And so now we know why.
Speaker A:Like, and.
Speaker A:And Joe explains more of us to Dean when she gets outside.
Speaker A:And that's how we give the exposition or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so, you know, like, hey, you know, we don't get the whole story.
Speaker A:It does leave you wondering, like, what is there more to it?
Speaker A:Like, because it doesn't seem like, you know, John was an asshole, but wasn't like a asshole.
Speaker A:Like, he wouldn't.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:He wouldn't intentionally hurt people that he cared about.
Speaker A:He would intentionally put people.
Speaker A:But then he also was.
Speaker B:So he took a lot of risks.
Speaker B:No, he took a lot of risks.
Speaker B:He would put people in danger, but he.
Speaker B:But he wasn't going to do something.
Speaker B:But he never wanted to intentionally endanger someone who didn't know what they were signing up for, I think.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:But yeah, he also obviously had a one track mind and like, the end is like all that matters and accomplish the mission, basically.
Speaker A:But yeah, so Joe's really pissed and upset because also I would also be upset if my mother had kept how my father had died for me for.
Speaker A:However, you know, she said she was so pigtailed.
Speaker A:So since she was a little kid, her.
Speaker A:Ellen kept all this shit from her.
Speaker A:So as much as, you know, she's taking a bunch of shit out in the Winchesters, she's also like, there's this whole.
Speaker A:My mom betrayed me too.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So, yeah.
Speaker B:And so, um, but this explains also kind of why that, you know, Ellen kind of has a weird relationship with the brothers.
Speaker B:Like, she, you know, you can tell she has like a soft spot for them as children or like, not children, but grown children of someone that she knew and had a relationship with at some point and knows that they don't have any involvement in this.
Speaker B:But she's also a little standoffish because she's afraid that they take after their dad.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's a little complex.
Speaker A:Especially Dean.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And we also.
Speaker A:I think it was interesting, too, like, Gene's reaction when Joe is like, fuck off.
Speaker A:And he was like, well, fine, fuck off.
Speaker A:Which I also get because I'd be like, yeah, cool.
Speaker A:All right, peace.
Speaker A:And she's like, no, wait.
Speaker A:Like, I have to.
Speaker A:I have to vent.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I think we finally got a little bit of background.
Speaker B:We know kind of why Ellen's kind of like this weird, like, protective, but also very standoffish with the Winchester ball mothers.
Speaker B:I think that's.
Speaker B:I think that's kind of a good way to describe her behavior there.
Speaker B:But also very protective of her daughter.
Speaker A:Well, I mean, beyond Jesse, my husband died while on a case, and then.
Speaker B:Now my daughter and we hang out with a bunch of hunters, and my daughter wants to be one.
Speaker A:Which is also interesting, though, if you think about it, from.
Speaker A:Why did you keep like this up?
Speaker B:Like, why still in this life, she's choosing to still expose her daughter to this lifestyle at the all.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:I mean, so, I mean, I don't know if it's because it makes her feel closer to her husband, but, I.
Speaker B:Mean, she didn't probably.
Speaker A:She didn't diverge them from this path.
Speaker A:She was just like, I'm going to have this place.
Speaker A:Unless, like, I guess maybe that existed before.
Speaker A:Which.
Speaker A:I don't know if we ever actually get into that.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, a lot of things.
Speaker A:It was a kind of scary episode, Liz.
Speaker A:I was kind of scared.
Speaker A:I thought you would be.
Speaker A:There's a lot of jump moments.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't.
Speaker B:I don't do good at the jump moments.
Speaker B:It was still daylight when I watched, so that's good.
Speaker A:That's good because.
Speaker A:Yeah, the sun never goes down now because we live in Mordor.
Speaker A:I love it.
Speaker A:I'm so happy.
Speaker A:Sunshine all the time.
Speaker A:It's so gross.
Speaker A:You're so weird.
Speaker A:I don't want to go outside at all.
Speaker A:Anyways.
Speaker A:Okay, so overall, thoughts other than, like,.
Speaker B:Some of, like, the weirdest weird.
Speaker B:Like, there's.
Speaker B:I liked some of the aspects.
Speaker B:I like Jo being out there kind of.
Speaker B:But, like, man, this was a weird episode for, like, inconsistent.
Speaker B:Like, not inconsistencies isn't the right word.
Speaker A:There are some holes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's definitely some holes within.
Speaker A:It wasn't inconsistent, but there are definitely holes in how things happen.
Speaker B:It was very odd for.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:It was, like, more so than normal.
Speaker B:Like, I know there's always a level of suspension of belief.
Speaker B:There's.
Speaker B:This is a, you know, show about supernatural shit.
Speaker B:Obviously, there's a level of but there's a lot of, like, I'm not sure that's how this works or even if you're even in your lore world, I'm not sure if that's how this works, you know, so that.
Speaker B:That was kind of like a little bit of a stretch, but.
Speaker B:But we got some.
Speaker B:It's nice to have a little bit of that background.
Speaker B:Defined it.
Speaker B:I kind of, you know, suspected.
Speaker B:And I think we all did, about the relationship between Ellen and John and why it was so strange.
Speaker B:It was one extreme or the other.
Speaker B:It was this.
Speaker B:That he got.
Speaker B:He got her husband killed.
Speaker B:Or they were banging, they were fucking, or he got her.
Speaker B:Her dude killed.
Speaker B:That's it.
Speaker B:And now we know it's because he got her dude killed.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Interesting.
Speaker A:They went that way.
Speaker A:Like, what would have happened if, like, Sam, I am your brother.
Speaker B:Like, oh, man, I've been wild.
Speaker B:But, yeah.
Speaker B:So I think that was interesting hearing that getting that backstory was important.
Speaker A:Just.
Speaker B:And I know that she needs, like, a lot of training and a lot of experience, but if Joe wants to.
Speaker A:Be a hunter, let her be a hunter.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I think Joe would make a fine hunter.
Speaker A:She did all her research.
Speaker B:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And she obviously has a knife she likes, and, you know, she's good with.
Speaker B:It, ain't scared to use it, and.
Speaker A:She's get a big buck hunter.
Speaker A:So clearly she's a good shot.
Speaker A:And, you know, if she wants to go out hunting shit, let her go hunt shit.
Speaker A:Like, you know, that's fine.
Speaker A:But also, I get it.
Speaker A:As a mom, I would not want my only child to go off and do this when my husband died of it.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But also, then don't run a bar that's full of hunters.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker B:Don't.
Speaker B:Don't expose her to it.
Speaker B:Be like, no, you can't do this, but meet all these people.
Speaker B:But don't do this.
Speaker A:But don't do this.
Speaker B:Don't do.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Hear all their stories, know everything they're doing.
Speaker B:Research, how to find your own missions.
Speaker B:But don't do this.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:Well, I also think, you know, Dean had a good point when he said, you know, it was like she was romanticizing, you know, for sure.
Speaker A:But it's like, if you're sitting in a bar where people are only telling their war stories, it's just gonna be romanticized.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, you're sitting in a bar you're not typically going into.
Speaker A:Like, you know, the time where you got diarrhea while you're hunting a Wendigo.
Speaker A:Like that's just not gonna happen.
Speaker A:They are.
Speaker A:You know, they.
Speaker A:They're gonna be, oh, and then I killed you.
Speaker A:I tracked it and I killed it and I saved this person, you know?
Speaker B:Does.
Speaker B:Does Trunk have a stock of Imodium?
Speaker A:Actually, I really hope she does.
Speaker A:With how they eat.
Speaker A:Yeah, the amount of how they eat.
Speaker B:At least some good old fashioned Pepto.
Speaker B:Just some good old fashioned Pepto.
Speaker A:As the amount of whiskey they drank and the amount of beer and the.
Speaker A:The road food.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, there's got to be some.
Speaker A:That's probably why Sam was in that shitty bathroom last episode, but.
Speaker B:So before.
Speaker A:He got off, that's why he was all sweaty.
Speaker A:Oh, see?
Speaker A:We get to end it on an ew.
Speaker A:Anything else?
Speaker B:That's all I got.
Speaker A:All right, then, let's wrap this up.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Cheers.
Speaker B:Cheers, bitch.
Speaker A:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker B:Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Devil's Trap Podcast Podcast, Twitter, Devil's Trapp Pod or you can email us devils trapilotrapodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews.
Speaker A:And share it with all your friends.
Speaker A:We're available at all your major podcast listening devices, or you can always find us@devilstrappodcast.com thanks.
Speaker B:Devil's Trap Podcast is a Don't be a production.
Speaker B:Meow.
Speaker A:Intro music arrangement and performance by Dave Cox.
Speaker A:Piano arrangement and performance by Bobby Orozco.
Speaker A:Meow.
