2:05 Simon Said
It's Supernatural Season Two, Episode Five, and it is mostly about the demon babies. Liz explores the question "Can twins be trusted?" when she goes into the True Crime tale behind Spahlaski twins. The brothers who commit crime together, end up in prison together. And lest we forget - Dr Bad Ass is In!
Sources:
- https://murderpedia.org/male.S/s/spahalski-robert.htm
- https://www.oxygen.com/killer-siblings/crime-news/twin-killers-robert-stephen-spahalski-attica-michael-benson
- https://medium.com/true-crime-addiction/identical-twins-connected-by-dna-and-murder-true-crime-6e22df2b84e5
- http://maamodt.asp.radford.edu/Psyc%20405/serial%20killers/Spahalski,%20Robert.pdf
- Killer Twins Benson, Michael. 2010.
- Democrat and Chronicle (Rochester, New York)13 Jan 2010, Wed. Page 11.
- Star-Gazette (Elmira, New York) March 12, 2010 Friday By Jason Whong
- http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/Ben_Edlund
- http://www.supernaturalwiki.com/2.05_Simon_Said
Transcript
Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:This week we'll talk about the demons, babies.
Speaker B:We'll dance along to some Dina rookie.
Speaker A:Can twins be trusted?
Speaker B:And Dr. Badass is in.
Speaker B:Let's do this.
Speaker A:Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:I'm Diana.
Speaker C:I'm Liz.
Speaker A:And this podcast, we talk about the TV show Supernatural.
Speaker A:Right now we are on season two, episode five, and it's my first time watching.
Speaker A:Whereas Liz is an expert in the.
Speaker B:Supernatural world, I do know I am not an expert.
Speaker C:I am just a. I am a crazy fan.
Speaker C:Don't call me an expert, because then people will start asking me things.
Speaker C:I'll be like, I don't fucking know what that is, but, oh, man, I think I was having a dream about Jared Padalecki the other day.
Speaker A:Really?
Speaker C:I think so.
Speaker B:I. I know my world is everything.
Speaker B:I've been so tired lately.
Speaker C:I'm like.
Speaker B:I feel like either, like I learned.
Speaker C:Something about him or I dread something about him.
Speaker C:I'm not sure.
Speaker C:So one of those two.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker C:You know, it is what it is.
Speaker C:How have you been, the sweet Diana?
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:I'm good.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:We're getting ready.
Speaker A:Our car club is hosting a car show at the Texas Pie Festival this weekend.
Speaker A:So that's exciting and getting ready for that and trying to just ramp up with my work because, like I mentioned last week, so I don't need to be a dead horse.
Speaker A:My work is getting busy because live music is coming back, which is super fucking exciting.
Speaker A:And a lot of fucking work when you've had a reduced crew for a long time.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So good stuff, Good stuff happening, but a little extra busy, But I thrive in that.
Speaker A:So I'm just embracing the crazy.
Speaker B:You love a spreadsheet.
Speaker C:I think this is probably a lot of opportunities for a spreadsheet.
Speaker C:So many spreadsheets.
Speaker A:There's a lot of spreadsheets and a lot of documents and contracts and all kinds of paperwork to do.
Speaker A:Lists and conference calls.
Speaker A:Oh, yeah, all the good shit.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker C:I think Diana just got a lady boner.
Speaker C:I can see.
Speaker C:I can see it happening.
Speaker C:She's like, oh, I organized so much.
Speaker A:I had to use my numeric pad keypad a lot today.
Speaker C:So I do miss having a numeric keypad.
Speaker C:And also just for some reason when I type, especially on my external keyboard, which kind of lives underneath, like, various laptop stands, I can't do number typing.
Speaker B:Well, like, it just my.
Speaker C:I don't Know, maybe it's because I have short T. Rex arms, which means I also have short T. Rex fingers.
Speaker C:But reaching up to those top ones is kind of weird.
Speaker C:Weird for me.
Speaker A:I've never been good at typing quickly with the regular line.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:So I'm like, like, if I buy a new laptop, I'm like, no, if it doesn't have a numpad, I don't want it.
Speaker A:It's gotta have the numpad.
Speaker B:I just.
Speaker C:I don't do enough with numbers, like, beyond, like, dates and stuff that, you.
Speaker A:Know, in timestamps I don't on my home computer.
Speaker A:And I still insist on it.
Speaker A:Cause I'm a fucking weirdo.
Speaker A:It goes back to once upon a time days when I worked in like a call center doing, like, order.
Speaker A:Order.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:Oh, yeah.
Speaker B:I mean, but if I do.
Speaker B:If I do have that 10, that.
Speaker C:Keypad, like, I can work it like a bitch.
Speaker C:I'm just like, adding.
Speaker C:Adding all the stuff I like.
Speaker C:I can do it.
Speaker A:But yeah, very satisfying.
Speaker A:It is a.
Speaker C:It is.
Speaker C:It's a very satisfying feeling.
Speaker B:It may go to.
Speaker C:Like, my dad being an accountant.
Speaker C:And I always wanted, like, we did this, this.
Speaker C:And so like, you know, dad, like, I want to be a good accountant.
Speaker C:I never know.
Speaker C:No accountant for Liz.
Speaker A:Yeah, I didn't have that, but I do have, like.
Speaker A:So my work keyboard is like a mechanical keyboard.
Speaker A:And it, like, brings me so much joy.
Speaker B:That is a very.
Speaker B:Oh, yeah.
Speaker A:To type on.
Speaker C:My external is a mechanical and it also has rainbow lights on it.
Speaker C:They piss me off.
Speaker C:And I like, keep always trying to,.
Speaker B:Like, was like, stop flashing lights.
Speaker C:You're giving me stress.
Speaker C:Like, I just want you to be a solid color.
Speaker C:Be a solid color.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Organizing.
Speaker A:I think, I think that's a. I think that's a computer person thing because my IT guy is the one that.
Speaker A:He's like, I've got this mechanical keyboard I think you'd really like.
Speaker A:And I'm like, I love this.
Speaker B:Well, it's.
Speaker C:It's satisfying if you're coding or other things.
Speaker C:Like, you know, like, it helps, you know, that you've entered something correctly.
Speaker C:And I typed so fast that, like, what my work laptop, like, that MacBook has.
Speaker C:Sorry, guys, this is getting really long.
Speaker B:I promise I will stop talking just.
Speaker A:A little bit more.
Speaker A:We gotta finish.
Speaker A:Hold on.
Speaker B:I gotta finish.
Speaker C:So it's one of the older MacBook Pros and the keyboard on those sucked.
Speaker C:So it's, you know.
Speaker C:But I type so fast and inevitably, like, there's like five t's in a sentence.
Speaker C:Because I'm like, hit it really hard.
Speaker C:It's like.
Speaker B:And then like, by.
Speaker C:And they're like, what the fuck, Liz?
Speaker C:And I'm like.
Speaker C:And then like, the next words just gone.
Speaker C:I'm like, okay.
Speaker C:So that's why I have external.
Speaker C:The beat pros have really good keyboards.
Speaker B:I will.
Speaker C:I will say that anyhow.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker C:There we go.
Speaker A:So how are you this week?
Speaker B:I'm good.
Speaker C:And back home, my house is a mess.
Speaker C:But I made sure that my office is like a place of sanctuary because there are just piles of suitcases that are open from various trips and just boxes that were delivered while I was gone.
Speaker C:And so I was like, the office is the sanctuary.
Speaker C:So it's very chill in here.
Speaker C:So I'm actually kind of happy to be working in my office.
Speaker C:I did speak of organization.
Speaker C:I did organize my parents pantry, which was very satisfying, very scary.
Speaker C: , things from that expired in: Speaker C:I'm like, I'm pretty sure I bought this when I lived in your house, so.
Speaker B:But I made them zones and just.
Speaker C:Like, went through and like, I did not go through.
Speaker C:Like, if it was my pantry, I would have gone through and like, taken everything out and put it into, like, different containers that were labeled.
Speaker C:But my parents could never keep up with that.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker C:But they at least like, their zoned.
Speaker C:The 50 jars of pickles I found have their own shelf now.
Speaker C:Jar of pickled products.
Speaker A:I mean, are they all the same or are they a variety of products?
Speaker C:No, there was a variety of pickles.
Speaker B:Like, yeah.
Speaker B:So, you know, there was dills and.
Speaker C:Limes, and then also, like, there was like 10 jars of pepperoncinis.
Speaker C:I'm like, you just like, forget you had pepperoncinis.
Speaker C:You just kept buying more and more.
Speaker C:And more.
Speaker C:So, yeah, hopefully they're enjoying their new pantry.
Speaker A:And lots of pepperoncinis.
Speaker C:And lots of pepperoncinis, which I did have on a pizza this week, and they were delicious.
Speaker C:Anyways, that's what I'm doing.
Speaker C:Back to work, back to house.
Speaker C:Hopefully this week I get to finally build my 3D printer.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker C:As much as I miss being on the road and I was like, okay, on the road, too much on the road, too much.
Speaker C:Go home.
Speaker B:Go home.
Speaker A:That was like two and a half solid weeks almost.
Speaker B:It was almost like three and a half weeks.
Speaker C:It was almost a month that I was gone.
Speaker C:So I love my house.
Speaker C:And I made my house super comfy for me and not having my alone time here.
Speaker C:And also the cat who had to unfortunately, deal with the three other cats hidden in her room is she's now very chill.
Speaker C:I was like, okay, we're back.
Speaker C:It's cool.
Speaker C:I'm in here.
Speaker C:What are you drinking?
Speaker A:I am having a cocktail this week.
Speaker A:It is a slightly modified version of bee's knees because it's a beverage that I enjoy and it sounds fun.
Speaker A:So it's a gin cocktail.
Speaker A:But a. I didn't.
Speaker A:I'm not going to serve a drink at home in a coupe glass and sip on that.
Speaker A:I'm going to put it on ice and make it larger than it's supposed to be.
Speaker A:AKA my husband is going to put it on ice and make it larger than it's supposed to be, because why not?
Speaker A:So that's what I've got this week.
Speaker B:Well, otherwise, he'd have to be in.
Speaker C:The office, like, every 10 minutes, another drink.
Speaker A:No shit.
Speaker C:And I do love the cube glass.
Speaker C:They're pretty.
Speaker A:They're pretty.
Speaker A:But I'm not gonna make it at home.
Speaker C:Yeah, I got a delivery from Senor Vineyards today who was brought by a UPS drunk guy with, like, the best porn stache I've seen in a while.
Speaker C:And I was like, oh, man.
Speaker C:He just, like, dropped it off, and I'm like, hey, man, do you give him mustache rides?
Speaker A:Is this a bit, or are you actually trying to entice?
Speaker C:I was just like.
Speaker C:It was like, yeah, this is how porn starts.
Speaker C:Like, cool.
Speaker C:Like, it was like, you brought me some wine.
Speaker C:And then like, here you are.
Speaker C:He was wearing UPS shorts and everything.
Speaker C:I was like, oh, I know how this movie goes.
Speaker C:I'm like, wait, that's.
Speaker C:No, that's not what's happening here.
Speaker C:He's just like, take your shit and go inside, lady.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker A:Let me go.
Speaker B:I ran down your hill carrying all.
Speaker C:Your fucking booze, lady.
Speaker C:Anybody who's seen my hill know he had to go back up that hill, so I should have offered him.
Speaker C:Would you like some lemonade?
Speaker C:Like, I don't have a lemonade.
Speaker C: So I am drinking one of their: Speaker C:Not.
Speaker C:I think it's how you say that.
Speaker C:I've never.
Speaker C:But I love that wine, so.
Speaker C:Which is really good because I was gonna bust over the 90 bottle of kaleid today, but I didn't, because I was like, oh, I just missed.
Speaker C:I just want to drink a good bottle of wine.
Speaker C:So they brought me some, like, a miracle.
Speaker B:Yay.
Speaker C:Thank you, goddess.
Speaker C:Yep.
Speaker C:So that's it.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker C:And blah, blah.
Speaker C:All right, well, we'll stop yammering about our Our stupid lives now.
Speaker C:Whatever the episode.
Speaker C:All right, so like Diana said, this is Season Episode 5.
Speaker C: ,: Speaker C:Oh, good Lord.
Speaker B:Last name Ayakofano.
Speaker C:I a C O F A N O.
Speaker C:Close enough.
Speaker C:So this is the only episode of Supernatural he did, but he also did a bunch of other things.
Speaker C:He did 24 Smallville, some Jessica Jones.
Speaker C:Like, he's got a pretty big repertoire of stuff.
Speaker C:Stuff.
Speaker C:It was written by Ben Edlund, and this is his first episode of Supernatural, but we're gonna see a lot more of them.
Speaker C:He also worked on Firefly and Angel.
Speaker C:He.
Speaker C:He wrote my favorite episode of angel all time, which is Smile Time.
Speaker C:And I know.
Speaker C:I've been trying to get you to watch angel and you haven't done it yet.
Speaker C:I'm aging through it.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker C:And I say just jump forward and go watch that episode.
Speaker C:Like, you don't need a background to watch it because it's fucking puppets.
Speaker C:Like Angel's goddamn puppet.
Speaker C:And it's amazing.
Speaker C:He's the cutest puppet you've ever seen.
Speaker C:And it's like the most brilliant episode of puppets there ever was in Spikes in that episode too.
Speaker C:So you should go watch it.
Speaker C:But also, he created the tick.
Speaker C:He created the fucking tick.
Speaker C:Like the original comic.
Speaker B:And, like, did all the things like.
Speaker C:Oh.
Speaker C:Which is why there was a lot of humor in this episode.
Speaker C:And I love this sense of humor.
Speaker C:So good.
Speaker C:And I did see this quote of his on the Supernatural Wiki, which I liked.
Speaker B: This was at Comic Con: Speaker C:And they're just asking him about the show.
Speaker C:And Ben said, this is the thing that started with a deceptively simple premise of a muscle car and two beautiful men who shoot ghosts.
Speaker C:Where the fuck did that come from?
Speaker C:They drive around and shoot ghosts.
Speaker B:Ooh, classic rock.
Speaker C:And I like this show.
Speaker C:I like it.
Speaker C:I love it.
Speaker B:And I think that is, like, the.
Speaker C:Best description of Supernatural.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:I like it.
Speaker C:So that is our background on this episode.
Speaker C:So we can start talking about what happened.
Speaker C:Because Diana said she has some feelings, and I want to know what her feelings are.
Speaker A:I do.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:And we'll just dig right in because here we go.
Speaker A:So the episode starts with a man walking down the street answering his cell phone.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And a big ass clock tower.
Speaker B:Like the world's biggest clock tower.
Speaker A:It's a very large clock tower.
Speaker A:The clock tower is only eclipsed in size by the wide legs of this man's pants.
Speaker B:By the way, because this is the worst fitting suit.
Speaker A:I was like, is this, like, is he going to, like a zoot suit?
Speaker A:Like an over the top, like, caricature.
Speaker B:Zoot suit party or something?
Speaker A:The pant leg.
Speaker A:His pant legs are so wide.
Speaker A:Like, weirdly wide.
Speaker A:And it was very distracting to me.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:So he answers his cell phone and you see visions of him with, like, a shotgun.
Speaker A:And, like, basically he goes into, like, a store.
Speaker A:Everybody's surprised that he's there looking at guns.
Speaker A:Dennis, the guest is the name of the shop clerk there, and they call him Doc.
Speaker A:And he's getting invited to go turkey hunting and all this.
Speaker A:He's holding this gun and he's like, no, don't.
Speaker A:You know, guns make me nervous.
Speaker A:As he's loading the gun in the gun store, which not supposed to do.
Speaker B:That, and they're telling him, like, oh, what the.
Speaker B:What the are you.
Speaker A:And then he says really creepily, he said, it's all going to be okay.
Speaker A:And then fucking shoots Dennis with a shotgun in the middle of the store full of people.
Speaker A:And everybody, like, screams.
Speaker A:He's like, no, it's all going to be okay again.
Speaker A:And then puts the muzzle to his chin and you see a blood splatter.
Speaker A:Very distressing.
Speaker A:Opening scene for the.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was disturbing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, very.
Speaker A:And then we.
Speaker A:We figure out.
Speaker A:And so my shitty comment on the side was, it's not going to be okay.
Speaker A:But so we figure out that this is actually Sam having a vision or one of his nightmare visions.
Speaker A:And he's in, like, some, like, gross bathroom having this nightmare vision and getting all sweaty too.
Speaker B:Like, is this making him so sweaty?
Speaker A:He's very sweaty and washing his face in a nasty bathroom.
Speaker A:That's basically what our intro is.
Speaker B:This is like, you need to find a Buc Ees.
Speaker B:Like, why did you pull over in this bathroom?
Speaker B:Like, I would never.
Speaker B:Like, where's a Bucky's when you need one?
Speaker A:I mean, come on.
Speaker B:Or a loves or something like some sort of better truck stop bathroom.
Speaker A:I feel like Dean would very much appreciate some beaver nuggets, by the way, but go ahead.
Speaker B:Who doesn't love a beaver nugget?
Speaker B:But I also think if you notice while he was washing his face, he's in a cast.
Speaker B:So we see finally, Sam's broken hand is now.
Speaker B:Jared's broken hand is now.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's in the show.
Speaker A:That's part of the show.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So we cut Dean.
Speaker A:Dean gets him out of the bathroom.
Speaker A:And then you see them driving and Sam wants to go to the Roadhouse.
Speaker A:But Dean's kind of like, hey, maybe this isn't a good idea if other hunters start finding out that you've got some like freaky connection to like the demon of some kind.
Speaker B:So basically he calls him a supernatural freak and he's like, woof, man.
Speaker B:Like, I know like you're just letting some shit slip, but damn, it was a lot.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Anyways, so we cut to the Roadhouse anyways and Roadhouse and Joe just like totally hustled some dude on Big Buck Hunter, which was pretty hilarious.
Speaker A:I remember that video game came out and it was very popular at the arcade and at the bowling alley.
Speaker B:It's a fuck him.
Speaker A:And Dean has a very awkward interaction with her then while Sam goes to find Ash, which Ash's door to his room is labeled and says Dr. Badass is.
Speaker A:And it has a little thing to flip in or out.
Speaker A:And he had to.
Speaker B:That's badass.
Speaker B:I love you, Ash.
Speaker B:I'll rub my hands to your mullet.
Speaker B:Ash.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Stop.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:I can't let that mullet.
Speaker A:And he was naked.
Speaker A:Naked in his room.
Speaker A:Anyway, so they use Sam's vision to figure out that this vision came from a city called Guthrie, Oklahoma.
Speaker A:And because of like the bus logo.
Speaker A:So Ash doesn't really see any evidence of demonic activity there.
Speaker A:So he's kind of like, none of the markers are there.
Speaker A:I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker A: like, look up house fires in: Speaker A:Blah blah, blah blah.
Speaker A:Like the whole like thing.
Speaker A:And it bribes him with a PBR to do it.
Speaker A:Which I was amused by.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, pbr.
Speaker B:Okay, that would not be the beer you could.
Speaker B:You could bribe me with and be like, do you have.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I mean I drink it, but.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:But that wouldn't be the bribe beer.
Speaker A:Like, yeah, oh, I'll drink your pbr.
Speaker A:But that's not.
Speaker B:Well, it was also a PBR long neck, which is not usual to find.
Speaker A:No, those are actually super unusual.
Speaker A:Like tall boy all day long.
Speaker A:Regular regular can all day long.
Speaker A:But in a bottle at all.
Speaker A:Weird.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker A:So anyways, and then we get some.
Speaker A:Some sweet tunes courtesy of Joe on the jukebox in here too.
Speaker A:As the REO Speedwagon can't fight this feeling comes on.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there is some amazing face acting done by Jensen here.
Speaker B:Like the.
Speaker B:I don't want to like it, but I like it.
Speaker B:Which is Pretty much how we all feel about REO Speedwagon.
Speaker B:Like, I don't want to like the song, but kind of like it.
Speaker C:Me too.
Speaker B:I'm all that.
Speaker B:It's hard.
Speaker A:It's a hard song to like completely hate.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker A:But anyway, so.
Speaker A:And she basically had overheard all the.
Speaker A:What they're asking Ash to search for.
Speaker A:And Dean's like, no family stuff and she won't let her help at all.
Speaker B:I can't take you because your mom will hurt me.
Speaker A:Well, that too.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like they're a little like tension is adorable, but also like a lot.
Speaker A:It's like one of those.
Speaker A:It's like a very, very, very like traditional TV show.
Speaker A:Like we want to, but we shouldn't.
Speaker A:We want to, but we shouldn't.
Speaker B:But I also, I don't feel like it's that high stakes of attention.
Speaker B:Like it's just kind of cute.
Speaker B:Like it's like there's some flirting that's going on, but it's not like you're not seeing like they're not making goo go eyes each other.
Speaker A:Like a whole episode of that.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I think it really is more like Joe looks way too young for him.
Speaker B:We just really like.
Speaker B:And you can see that like.
Speaker B:And I think he knows that, like.
Speaker B:And also.
Speaker A:And he doesn't want Ellen to kill him.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And Ellen will kill him.
Speaker B:And I think it's like, hey, I can't be like, even though she's really cute, she's also young and her mom will fucking kill me.
Speaker B:And she would.
Speaker B:Because Ellen's a badass.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:All right, well, we pieced together that.
Speaker A:Well, we figure out we've got.
Speaker A:We cut to the.
Speaker A:Before we piece together what happen in Oklahoma, we do have a scene in the.
Speaker A:In baby where Dean is loudly singing Aria Speedwagon.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I call it Dino Rochey.
Speaker B:We get some Dino Rocky going and it was pretty epic.
Speaker B:It was a good, good job, Jensen.
Speaker A: he same like circumstances at: Speaker A:He was six months old, his mom died in a house fire, blah, blah, blah.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:But he seemed to have disappeared.
Speaker A:They don't have any contact for him.
Speaker A:So they've got to go find him.
Speaker A:And they go to his old work and they're awkwardly in suits suddenly.
Speaker B:And also, I mean he is living the fucking dream.
Speaker B:They're like he owes like a whole bunch of money.
Speaker B:Nobody is going after him.
Speaker B:I'm like, oh, the dream.
Speaker B:I am irresponsible.
Speaker B:And nobody, nobody is coming after me.
Speaker B:My credit is fine.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so they go to the restaurant he used to work at and the waitress assumes they're debt collectors.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:But Dean says they're lawyers and that Andy inherited a bunch of money from some aunt or something.
Speaker A:And some real awkward busboy named Weber pops in the middle of the conversation and it's just a lot.
Speaker A:And he's like, oh, no, Andy's a badass.
Speaker A:Like, has a story.
Speaker A:But yeah, so.
Speaker A:But then the.
Speaker A:The waitress that we later.
Speaker A:We later get a better name for, which is Tracy, explains where they can probably go find Andy and look for a van with a barbarian queen riding a polar bear.
Speaker B:And it's fucking epic.
Speaker B:It is epic.
Speaker B:It is not a Sasquatch petting your raccoon, though.
Speaker B:And I think, Diana, you should really pose the Sasquatch.
Speaker B:Peter putting a raccoon on our site just so people can see the awesomeness of this.
Speaker B:And like, maybe we can do a side by side comparison and do a poll to see which do you like better?
Speaker B:Who did it best?
Speaker B:Was it the chick riding the polar bear or is it Sasquatch dirtily petting a raccoon?
Speaker B:And I'm going with the latter.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Context is.
Speaker A:A friend of ours was at the beach this past weekend, Texas coastal beach, and saw a truck.
Speaker C:Goodness.
Speaker A:Was it back.
Speaker A:Back hat?
Speaker A:Tailgate.
Speaker A:That's the word.
Speaker A:Good Lord.
Speaker A:A tailgate with a.
Speaker A:An amazing painting of a Sasquatch petting a raccoon.
Speaker A:So there we go.
Speaker A:We'll share it.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker A:Anyway, so they find the.
Speaker A:They find the van.
Speaker A:And of course Dan Dean thinks it's fucking sweet.
Speaker A:Like you do.
Speaker A:Like it is fucking sweet.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:And did you notice what was playing in the background?
Speaker A:I missed it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it was Spinal Tap.
Speaker B:And they're like, oh, no, no, I did have that.
Speaker A:Stonehenge.
Speaker A:Yeah, Stonehenge from Spy did have that.
Speaker A:Sorry, I was, I. I caught it.
Speaker A:Yeah, I was like, yeah, song.
Speaker A:What is the song?
Speaker A:Stonehenge from Spinal Tap.
Speaker A:So they see like the, the.
Speaker A:Some dude like in his like, robe strolling down the street, like, waving at hot chicks.
Speaker A:Take some dude's coffee.
Speaker A:No one cares.
Speaker A:Just doing his thing.
Speaker A:And yeah, so he shakes hands with Doc, who we've.
Speaker A:Who's the one that.
Speaker A:The guy we saw at the beginning blows brains out.
Speaker A:Who obviously was a vision.
Speaker A:He hasn't done it yet.
Speaker A:And so they decide to split off and Dean is going to follow the van that Andy drives away in and Sam is going to follow Doc to try to keep him doing from whatever they think he's been instructed to do by Andy.
Speaker A:Dean gets fucking busted in his tail, though he's not tailing very well.
Speaker A:And this is a very sad moment for me where Andy walks over to Dean in the car, gets out his van, walks over the window and Dean's got his gun stashed and everything because he's ready.
Speaker A:And Andy's just blown smoke about how cool the Impala is.
Speaker A:And then just says, can I have it?
Speaker A:Dean says, sure, and gets out and puts Andy in the driver's seat, left standing in the fucking road.
Speaker B:Yeah, it is a very painful moment.
Speaker B:But at the same time, maybe I take the fucking van.
Speaker B:Like, what are you doing?
Speaker B:Like, I would be like, you're missing, like, an Impala van chase.
Speaker B:Like that could.
Speaker B:That would have been like somebody who's playing in the background.
Speaker B:And then, you know, like that.
Speaker B:You guys missed out on that.
Speaker B:Mark, I'm just telling you.
Speaker A:Missed opportunities.
Speaker A:Missed opportunities for sure.
Speaker A:But yeah, so then we cut.
Speaker A:Basically, we cut Sam, who's sees Doc take a call, just like in his vision.
Speaker A:And before Doc can walk into the gun store, it's like a sporty, good store that has a gun store.
Speaker A:Gun store.
Speaker A:Anyways, so Sam runs in there and pulls the alarm so that they have to evacuate the store and he can't go buy a gun.
Speaker A:Ta da.
Speaker A:Crisis averted.
Speaker A:So they think.
Speaker A:But while Sam and Dean are on the phone, because Dean's got to tell Sam that he gave Baby away, Doc gets a call.
Speaker A:And all of a sudden, Doc walks in front of a speeding bus.
Speaker B:Oops.
Speaker B:Yeah, he got smashed by a bus.
Speaker B:Apparently this was also the scene they struggled with because the first time they did it, it was really gross.
Speaker B:And there was like a shoe, like, flying through the air.
Speaker B:And they were like, you know, that may be a little much for network television, but yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Both that opening scene and this scene were both fairly intense, though.
Speaker A:Honestly.
Speaker B:There's some fairly intense things in here.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker A:There.
Speaker B:There's also some scenes later that I'm really uncomfortable by.
Speaker B:But we also, like, during that time, too, like, Sam sees Andy just driving.
Speaker C:By in the Impala.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And he's like.
Speaker B:And like, it's mind control.
Speaker B:They're like, oh, God, it's mind control.
Speaker B:Now we know.
Speaker A:And then Indian really likes to make his Star wars references here in this.
Speaker B:We get a lot of Star wars references in here.
Speaker A:Yeah, full on.
Speaker A:Obi Wand me.
Speaker A:That's what he said.
Speaker A:But, yeah.
Speaker A:Anyway, so Sam's all upset because he feels like while he kept Doc out of the gun store, he still feels guilty that he failed in preventing Doc from killing himself.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Next scene we have is Andy walks into the restaurant to go tell the waitress Tracy that Doc is dead.
Speaker A:He's crying.
Speaker A:So, like, he's pretty upset.
Speaker A:So it seems kind of odd that he'd be the one forcing all this to happen.
Speaker A:And Tracy's upset.
Speaker A:And obviously Tracy and him had a thing going on.
Speaker A:You can tell there's a little bit of that and.
Speaker A:And tells him that there's some.
Speaker A:Some guys were looking for him.
Speaker A:Sam and Dean are able to find fucking baby, which is important.
Speaker B:Yeah, baby's all right.
Speaker B:She looks good.
Speaker A:Baby's okay.
Speaker A:No damage.
Speaker A:She's good.
Speaker A:And they're like, you know, Sam is really convinced that Andy is using verbal commands to.
Speaker A:To get people to do what he wants.
Speaker A:Dean's just not convinced that Andy's the guy.
Speaker A:Like, even if he's using verbal commands, it's like, this guy's not a killer.
Speaker A:Like, he's like, just trying.
Speaker A:He's like a nerd, is kind of the vibe.
Speaker A:Like, I would.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:He's just, like, chilling.
Speaker A:They get inside of the van, is there too.
Speaker A:So they open up the van and find a bong, which is described as Moby Dick's bong.
Speaker B:Because that was.
Speaker B:That was a very large bong.
Speaker A:Very large bong.
Speaker B:And the most amazing tiger hanging, like.
Speaker A:Oh, that tiger hanging a fucking disco ball.
Speaker A:Dean is stoked he could live this lifestyle.
Speaker A:He is right.
Speaker B:I could live that lifestyle.
Speaker B:Who could not?
Speaker B:Like, I want that, dad.
Speaker B:Like, that looks like the world's van.
Speaker A:Life and a stack of philosophy books.
Speaker B:And those are some really deep philosophy books.
Speaker B:You know, in.
Speaker B:When I was in college and spoke, you probably had Moby Dick's bong.
Speaker B:Like, you know, had classes where I was reading Kant and like, all of a sudden, like, they're shitty philosophers.
Speaker B:Yeah, they're not shitty.
Speaker B:They're really in depth and hard and not.
Speaker B:They are not easy books.
Speaker B:And now we know, like, Andy is, like, really smart.
Speaker A:He's just a fucking nerd that doesn't.
Speaker A:That's trying to, like, just do his thing.
Speaker A:That's it.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:But, yeah, so anyways, we get.
Speaker A:So Sam's like, well, then what's the fucking motive?
Speaker A:Is Andy, the guy trying to figure it all out and he's just like, not.
Speaker A:Dean's just not convinced it's him.
Speaker B:And then Dean does, like, the unthinkable.
Speaker B:He throws a Food wrapper in the back of baby.
Speaker B:He just like eats this and then he like throws in the back seat.
Speaker B:I'm like, what the fuck are you doing, Dean?
Speaker B:Like, that's.
Speaker A:I was surprised by that too.
Speaker A:That seemed a little out of character.
Speaker A:I feel like he takes better care of baby.
Speaker B:You would hope so.
Speaker B:But no, that was so.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So they're.
Speaker A:They're doing their little like.
Speaker A:Just like watching out.
Speaker A:So Andy walks up to the window and Sam tries to tell.
Speaker A:He asked them what they're doing.
Speaker A:Tell them to tell them what they're.
Speaker A:Why they're following him.
Speaker A:So Sam's trying to give like some story that they're the lawyers, blah, blah.
Speaker A:But because.
Speaker A:Because Sam's not impacted by the little.
Speaker A:Whatever his truth power is that.
Speaker A:Or whatever his.
Speaker A:His verbal commands.
Speaker A:But Dean just gives him the fucking truth.
Speaker A:Because that's what Dean has to do.
Speaker A:Because Dean can't say otherwise.
Speaker A:All about it.
Speaker A:We hunt demons.
Speaker A:We think you might be a killer.
Speaker A:And the reason this bothers me is because I'm afraid that Sam might be a killer too.
Speaker B:Yeah, some definite word vomit.
Speaker A:Sam is very distressed by all of this.
Speaker A:So Andy basically just wants him to leave him alone.
Speaker B:And Dean's like, sure, we'll leave you alone.
Speaker A:Okay, cool.
Speaker A:But then Sam goes after Andy because he's like, no, we're not going to go after.
Speaker A:We're not leaving you alone.
Speaker A:I think you and I are alike.
Speaker A:And basically the whole premise that we get from this point on is that Sam is convinced that Andy is a killer and is convinced therefore that Sam will.
Speaker A:That himself.
Speaker A:He.
Speaker A:Sam, will become a killer or is a killer at heart.
Speaker A:Because that's something that's tied to them because they're all related because of the demon and they're cursed, basically.
Speaker B:I don't know if like, Sam thinks he's bad because of this.
Speaker B:I think Sam is just feeling really fucking guilty.
Speaker B:He knows that, you know, his dad would have.
Speaker B:He doesn't even know yet what his dad thought about him.
Speaker B:But you know that this is something that's not okay in his family.
Speaker B:Dean's already being like, no, we can't take you there because they're, you know, hunters are going to kill you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:So I think Sam is just inherently carrying this guilt and this idea of like, I'm a bad person.
Speaker B:So, like, I think he's projecting a lot of this onto Andy too.
Speaker A:So that's true.
Speaker A:Yeah, he's just got a lot of guilt.
Speaker A:But he's also.
Speaker A:I think he's also like After.
Speaker A:Oh God, I forgot the act.
Speaker A:I forget the character's name.
Speaker A:But the young man that.
Speaker A:That telekinesis dude.
Speaker A:Yeah, that was freakish.
Speaker A:And I think that really sam up.
Speaker A:And especially seeing more and more of the connection between the.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The demons.
Speaker A:The demons.
Speaker A:Babies, for lack of better.
Speaker A:The demons.
Speaker A:Sorry.
Speaker A:But yeah, so anyways, Andy's like, that's great and all, but I'm not fucking killing these people.
Speaker A:I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker A:So our next scene is we get frickin another vision.
Speaker A:And this one is also deeply distressing and uncomfortable to watch as a woman is pumping gas.
Speaker B:Answers her phone with a terrible wig too.
Speaker B:That wig was fucking awful.
Speaker A:She was off looking the whole thing.
Speaker A:It was very.
Speaker B:What do you guys do in costume Dyes.
Speaker B:Like you dropped the ball in this episode anyways.
Speaker A:Well, they push the cigarette lighter in.
Speaker A:Then she finishes pumping gas and then starts dousing herself in gas.
Speaker A:The mechanic notices and starts yelling for her to stop.
Speaker A:And she does that.
Speaker C:It's.
Speaker A:It'll be.
Speaker A:It'll be okay.
Speaker A:Grabs the cigarette lighter and pushed it to her arm, which I'm not sure if that would work or not, but either way she goes up in flames and it's very distressing.
Speaker B:I think it could work.
Speaker A:But a cigarette won't ignite lit.
Speaker A:A cigarette won't ignite wet.
Speaker A:So I don't know if a cigarette lighter would.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't know.
Speaker B:Well, let's test it.
Speaker B:Let's see.
Speaker B:I don't even know who has that lighter in their cart.
Speaker B:Do you have one in Duchess?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Okay, so we're gonna throw gasoline on something.
Speaker A:Not someone.
Speaker A:Something.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Also, like, as terrible as the scene is, all I can think about is I don't know if that's a Space Zoolander when they're having the gasoline fights.
Speaker B:So I'm like, this is terrible.
Speaker B:Anytime I see someone dousing gasoline in themselves, all I think about is a zoom.
Speaker A:Accident.
Speaker A:That's so funny and wrong, but hilarious.
Speaker A:That is.
Speaker A:I mean, and I love that movie.
Speaker B:So it's okay.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Sam.
Speaker A:And Sam tells Dean about his vision.
Speaker A:Sam is still convinced that's Andy doing it all.
Speaker A:But they're like, but he's been here.
Speaker A:He can't call this lady to tell her because he's been mark right here this whole time.
Speaker A:So he stays.
Speaker A:So Sam stays with Andy and Dean goes to try to figure out what's going on.
Speaker A:And it was.
Speaker A:It was already done.
Speaker A:Like there was not a gap in time.
Speaker A:This Time in the vision.
Speaker A:Usually there's like some time on it.
Speaker A:But anyway, so now Sam's like, okay, well, maybe it's not.
Speaker A:Maybe it's not Andy.
Speaker A:But by the way, Andy, guess what?
Speaker A:I have death visions.
Speaker A:That's fun.
Speaker A:And he's like, oh, that fucking sucks a lot.
Speaker B:Well, and also, you know, Sam.
Speaker B:And this is some of the problematic things I have this episode.
Speaker B:So Sam's like, you're not a killer, right?
Speaker B:So he's like, oh, clearly he's a good guy, but he's not a good guy.
Speaker B:Really.
Speaker B:If you think about, like, the ethical lines this dude is towing, like, the chick he fucked.
Speaker B:I'm pretty sure he told that chick to fuck him.
Speaker B:Like, that is not okay.
Speaker B:He does some questionable things.
Speaker B:He's still like.
Speaker B:Even though he's not necessarily killing people, he is still manipulating.
Speaker B:Manipulating the world to fit, like, what he wants.
Speaker B:Which is, you know, there.
Speaker B:There's definitely like, you're.
Speaker B:You're not like a golden child here, Andy.
Speaker B:You're still kind of a dick.
Speaker A:Yeah, no, I think you're absolutely right because it's like, okay, well, you're not.
Speaker A:You might not be a killer, but you're not a fucking angel either.
Speaker A:So, yeah, it's.
Speaker A:There's a huge moral and ethical dilemmas with.
Speaker A:With how he's using his powers, for.
Speaker B:Lack of a better word.
Speaker C:I don't know.
Speaker A:Anyways, so Dean gets back from like, this little mission and finds out that the woman's name, basically what it all comes down to is this woman was actually Andy's mom.
Speaker A:His birth mother, because he was adopted.
Speaker A:So the mother that burned on the roof, on the ceiling, in the house fire was an adopted mother, not his birth mother.
Speaker A:So they're like, what the.
Speaker A:Does that mean for the.
Speaker A:The whole, like, pattern?
Speaker A:And also he has a twin that was adopted out separately.
Speaker B:So he has an evil twin.
Speaker B:So I think what we should do, at least talk about evil twins.
Speaker A:I'm gonna talk about evil twins lore.
Speaker B:So we're gonna talk about some lore.
Speaker B:Yeah, some evil twins.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I'm really excited about this.
Speaker B:It shouldn't be.
Speaker B:We're gonna talk.
Speaker B:This is a true crime one.
Speaker B:You know, I love my true crime.
Speaker B:And in, you know, researching this one, like my work husband, he is a twin.
Speaker B:And we always say his.
Speaker C:His.
Speaker B:His brother is an evil one.
Speaker B:But, you know, I mean, I was like, sometimes I always see that episode of the Simpsons or the Treehouse of Horrors, like, well, the evil twin was and always has been Bart.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And there is an actual series that you can see on Discovery that was originally on Oxygen called Evil Twins.
Speaker B:And there are a number of stories of twins that were bad people that did a lot of bad things, and they cross every gender.
Speaker B:They do all sorts of things.
Speaker B:But this is the one that really, really kind of like, I was like, I want to talk about them.
Speaker B:I want to research these guys.
Speaker B:So we're going to talk about Robert and Stephen Spahalski.
Speaker B:I really hope I'm saying their name right.
Speaker B:I'm Polish, I should know how to say this, but whatever.
Speaker B: So in December: Speaker B:Steven was the older twin.
Speaker B:He entered the world a few minutes earlier than Robert.
Speaker B:And they were in this town outside of Elmira, N.Y. it was somewhat idyllic.
Speaker B:They were growing up at a large farm with their other six brothers and sisters.
Speaker B:God, people stop having so many babies.
Speaker B:But the boys were pretty athletic.
Speaker B:They eventually developed a passion for gymnastics.
Speaker B:But there was also some darker side to these kids.
Speaker B:Robert said he used to get a big kick out of shooting and killing the neighbors.
Speaker B:Pesky cats and dogs.
Speaker B:They always knocked over our garbage can.
Speaker B:So I felt justified.
Speaker B:So already, like, I want to set that up.
Speaker B:Don't like these guys.
Speaker B:Like, that's real gross.
Speaker B:So fuck you.
Speaker B:You killed puppies and kittens and.
Speaker B:Yeah, so when the twins were 12, their dad left their mom for his secretary, and she raised the family on her own after that.
Speaker B:And in the beginning of high school, like I said, they were both training for gymnastics, like, four to six hours a day.
Speaker B:Like, they were really good at this.
Speaker B:But they also soon started experimenting with drugs.
Speaker B:And this is the 60s, so there were a lot of good drugs that were around.
Speaker B:And Robert claimed that he tripped over 300 times in his teenage years, which does not do good things for your brain.
Speaker A:Permafried.
Speaker A:Wasn't that the old terminology?
Speaker B:Yeah, I think that was something they made up to scare us in high school.
Speaker B:But, you know, like, it's still not good for a developing brain to have LSD pumped through it.
Speaker B:And on top of the lsd, like, they're basically doing any drugs they could get a handle handle on.
Speaker B:Robert really, like, speed.
Speaker B:And he would do it so he could stay up for like eight days at a time, which is also like, so you're killing your brain with speed and you're tripping, which to me sounds horrible.
Speaker B:I'm like, this sounds awful.
Speaker B:Like, I would really be like, yeah.
Speaker B:So on top of that Though they also start becoming adrenaline junkies.
Speaker B:So on top of being actual junkies who are adrenaline junkies, and because they were gymnasts, they would do fun things like go stand at a really high ledge and do handstands and, you know, like, without anything underneath them, like, somebody's afraid of heights.
Speaker C:I'm like, no, no, no, no.
Speaker B:And they were also, like, really into, like, cliff diving and, like, they're really good divers.
Speaker B:Was there a gymnast?
Speaker B:So they would, like, do like all sorts of sorts of like triple things or whatever.
Speaker B:So they do that, but then they're like, you know what?
Speaker B:This.
Speaker B:That's not enough of a rush for us.
Speaker B:Let's start doing crimes.
Speaker B:So, but really what was interesting is that they were rarely did crimes together.
Speaker B:They were doing, like, crimes and competition.
Speaker B:So they wanted to see, like, who could steal the most money, who could steal the most jewels.
Speaker B:And so they had this thing going back and forth.
Speaker B:And they're also suspected in Robin.
Speaker B:In the closeted homosexual community.
Speaker B:And there's going to be a lot of this underlying tone of this within this.
Speaker B:Within this discussion.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:But within that time frame, like, people who were homosexual made easy marks because if you rob them, they weren't going to come forward because, you know, it was legal to be.
Speaker B:And that comes later, too.
Speaker B:It was legal to be gay.
Speaker B:So they're not going to go to the cops and say they were robbed.
Speaker B:Robert said, you know who, by the way?
Speaker B:Most of his.
Speaker B:His family and friends call him Bruce.
Speaker B:I'm just going to call him Robert throughout this just for sake of making.
Speaker C:This easier to understand.
Speaker B:But he would just basically say, hey, like, I would get blowjobs from these guys after they picked me up on the highway, but I wasn't gay.
Speaker B:They were just, you know, sucking my dick, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah, but they were also.
Speaker B:These boys, like, grew to, like, over six feet tall.
Speaker B:And they were really built because they were really athletic.
Speaker B:So they made them very intimidating, too.
Speaker B:So if you're robbing somebody who's not going to come to the cops, you know, so it eventually, like the Elmira cops and people, the cops are almost errors.
Speaker B:Like, anytime there was a crime, they're like, oh, these boys probably have something to do with it.
Speaker B: em gets charged is in July of: Speaker B:And these come to Robert, and he was charged with unauthorized use of a vehicle.
Speaker B:He stole a fucking car.
Speaker B:I think this may have been the cop car he stole.
Speaker B:He sold a lot of cars, but.
Speaker B:So his charge was unauthorized use of a vehicle.
Speaker B:He was also charged with arson because he tried to burn down his school.
Speaker B:So that happened.
Speaker B: But then since: Speaker B:Then in November of that year, Ronald.
Speaker B: rd,: Speaker B:And his store was called your Salad Bastard Kitchen, which I'm just gonna leave that there.
Speaker B:So Salad Master, despite its very unfortunate name, was a Dallas franchise and it sold kitchen tools and gadget.
Speaker B:It still exists today.
Speaker B:They still have franchisees.
Speaker B:You can go watch it.
Speaker B:I watched their infomercial that talked about all the people who've done it.
Speaker B:Like, Zig Ziglar was like one of their salespeople.
Speaker B:If you don't know who Zig Ziglar was.
Speaker B:It was also very problematic.
Speaker A:Basically.
Speaker B:What's the word I'm looking for?
Speaker B:Like, pay to take my seminar and then I'll teach you how to sell things.
Speaker B:Like, remember my dad had White Times for those books?
Speaker B:Not a good man.
Speaker B:But anyway, so this guy Ripley had started this franchise, but he was found dead in his basement.
Speaker B:He'd been stabbed multiple times and was hit in the head with a blunt object.
Speaker B:They thought it was a hammer, but nobody was sure.
Speaker B:But important to also note that Ripley, while a devout Christian and a minister, had once been convicted of a sex offender crime, which really meant he was put in prison for being gay.
Speaker B:So he was.
Speaker B:So that's something that the cops are kind of taking into account.
Speaker B:His station wagon was found in a field, tragically, with the Thanksgiving turkey and a smashed carrot cake inside of it.
Speaker B:I'm like, that's just sad.
Speaker B:Like, you kill him and you smash a turkey in the cake.
Speaker B:Like fucking dicks, man.
Speaker A:So at least eat it.
Speaker B:At least eat it, right?
Speaker B:I mean, if I had a carrot cake, like, not saying I would murder somebody for a carrot cake, but I'm not gonna leave it.
Speaker B:Car.
Speaker B:But the place where the car was found was also known as a dumping ground for those vehicles that Robert Spahowski was stealing, because they could walk to.
Speaker B:He could walk to his house from there.
Speaker B:So automatically, like, they're like, okay, maybe it's the boys.
Speaker B:The police also at first thought that Ripley's wife had done it.
Speaker B:And they just basically grilled the shit out of her and her family.
Speaker B:And they're like, you get it?
Speaker B:You killed your husband.
Speaker B:And she's like, no, no, I did it.
Speaker B:But eventually the cops go back to the Spahalski boys, and at first they were focused on Robert because they were like, oh, Robert's the more violent of the two.
Speaker B:He's the one that we start, you know, keep arresting for things.
Speaker B:And in January, remember, the murder was in November.
Speaker B:In January of that year, Robert was arrested for stealing basketball shirts.
Speaker B:Weird thing to steal.
Speaker B:And he was sentenced to six months in county because he was also on probation for stealing the unauthorized use of vehicle.
Speaker B:So he goes to county, and eventually Steven gets brought to jail, too, because he entered an abandoned house with his girlfriend, but he was let go.
Speaker B:So while Robert is sitting in jail, the investigators, like, hey, this is time for us to give him a polygraph.
Speaker B:And this is just something, you know, like his personality.
Speaker B:So while Robert was, like, in the room, they're, like, standing, you know, outside the double mirror watching him.
Speaker B:And he was just walking around the room on his hands.
Speaker B:And so just, like, doing handstands and, like, doing gymnastics within the room.
Speaker B:They also saw him, like, steal a piece of evidence and try and put it in his shoe.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:But he did pass the polygraph, and he went back to.
Speaker B:They took him back to his cell on Amira.
Speaker B:And so the cops eventually turned to Stephen because during the polygraph, they'd asked him, like, if you didn't kill him, do you know who did?
Speaker B:And he failed that part.
Speaker B:So, like, oh, it must be Steven.
Speaker B:So they tap Steven's phones, and Steven made the mistake of, say, threatening somebody with the phrase, you better do as I say or you'll get the same Ripley guy.
Speaker B:Oops, Stephen.
Speaker B:Bad choice of words.
Speaker B:So that gave the cops the ammunition to go get a warrant for the house.
Speaker B:So they search the house, and they find the keys to the station wagon in the plumbing.
Speaker B:Which, guys, if you're gonna steal things, don't flush them down your fucking toilet.
Speaker B:Where do you think those go?
Speaker B:Like, cops will find them.
Speaker B:Go serve them in a field or something.
Speaker B:Like, I can never find my keys.
Speaker B:I drop them outside my house.
Speaker B:So just, like, go throw them in a field.
Speaker B:Don't throw them down your fucking toilet.
Speaker B:But anyways, so they arrest Stephen.
Speaker B:And Stephen's story is that he had an appointment with Ripley to give him money he owed him.
Speaker B:And we got there without money.
Speaker B:Ripley pulled a gun on him, made some sexual innuendos, and then Steven hit him with a metal bar and stabbed him.
Speaker B:And the cops always kind of thought that it could have been both of the twins, but they can never prove it.
Speaker B:And neither twin has ever admitted that was the case.
Speaker B:But later, while Robert said that the reason this happened was that Ripley was a homosexual minister who had gotten Steven addicted to heroin and was extorting that addiction with sex.
Speaker B:And to solve his issue, Steven stabbed him 48 times, which seems like an excessive way to dissolve this, but.
Speaker B: cted of manslaughter for this: Speaker B:And it was argued and reported within all the papers that this was committed under emotional duress, which was really referring to the potential homosexual overtones.
Speaker B:But the newspapers never couldn't print that, so they're like, oh, he was committed.
Speaker B:It was under emotional, you know, emotional duress.
Speaker B:Ripley's family does think this was all driven by robbery and that his lawyers were using.
Speaker B:Using Ripley's past arrest to make the sentence lighter.
Speaker B:So Stephen goes to prison for this for eight years.
Speaker B:He gets eight years for stabbing a man 48 times.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker B:But while he's serving those eight years, Robert gets kicked out of high school for punching his teacher in the face, which generally.
Speaker B:Yeah, they get you out of school for that.
Speaker A:Frowned upon.
Speaker B:Frowned upon, typically.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he just started selling drugs and he stole weed, coke, meth, et cetera, like whatever he could find.
Speaker B: nstruments to start a band in: Speaker B:So he committed like this.
Speaker B:And if this two will be, if you can believe the story, like, it involved him like having to climb up like a bunch of trees and like, do some weird, like, cat burglar shit where he was like hanging from ropes to, like, get these guitars off the wall.
Speaker B:But anyways, he wanted to start a band, so he stole some guitars.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Yep, yep.
Speaker B:So he goes to prison and he's actually in the same prison block as Stephen for a bit.
Speaker B: after two and a half years in: Speaker B: But he goes back again in: Speaker B:And at that time, one of the two was attempting an escape, but the correctional officers couldn't figure out which of the twins were doing it, so they just put them both in solitary.
Speaker B:Eventually, Stephen and Robert say that it was Robert who was trying to escape, but.
Speaker B:And they got found out because somebody snitched.
Speaker B:But I just think that, you know, twin antics, one of them is trying.
Speaker B:We don't know which twins trying to escape.
Speaker A:So once again, Benny Hill music cue.
Speaker C:Yeah, Yep.
Speaker B: Stephen was then released in: Speaker B:So.
Speaker B: And then he was released in: Speaker B: ay, so the Robert gets out in: Speaker B:Goes back to jail for stealing a coin collection.
Speaker B: then he was released again in: Speaker B: there and he goes back again: Speaker B: So he was released again in: Speaker B:So it's just like these guys are just like, in, in, out.
Speaker B:And then Steven's been in here for 30 years now.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: So when Robert gets out in: Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And then he also developed a crack habit.
Speaker B:So, yeah, not good.
Speaker B:Crack was, you know, not a good thing to be in.
Speaker B:And he really.
Speaker B:Yeah, and he crack his whack.
Speaker B:And he couldn't really be a dealer like he used to be because at that time, Rochester was overrun with these Jamaican gangs that were really hardcore and, like, were, like, killing the shit out of anybody who moved onto their turf.
Speaker B:So he worked with those gangs a bit, but he also became a hustler and a pimp.
Speaker B:And he would say, I could always make a buck with my golden cock.
Speaker B:Unfortunately, his cock was not that golden.
Speaker B: d he was only gay for pay, in: Speaker B: ould not be fully known until: Speaker B: remember, he was released in: Speaker B:2005 Is when he goes in and confesses that he killed somebody.
Speaker B:So he said that he was smoking crack with his friend Vivian, and she turned into a demon and tried to kill him.
Speaker B:So he killed her by hitting her in the head with a blunt object.
Speaker B:But following this confession, they were able to tie him to at least three other murders.
Speaker B: e happened when he got out in: Speaker B: t one happened in December of: Speaker B:And police even talked to him at this time as a witness, but they did not arrest him.
Speaker B:Later, confessions of his show that he said they were smoking crack, and she was like, hey.
Speaker B:He's like, I smoked.
Speaker B:I smoked you out, or whatever.
Speaker B:I don't know what crack people say, but it's like the crack was the Payment for your sex.
Speaker B:And she was like, no, I want money.
Speaker B:And then he got really mad, and he killed her.
Speaker A:Yikes.
Speaker B: In July of: Speaker B:The next year, his girlfriend, Adrian Berger, was found dead in her apartment.
Speaker B:Again, he was called questioned, but not arrested.
Speaker B:One of the main reasons was, was there a heat wave when she died.
Speaker B:And he shut all the windows and everything was in there to increase the speed of decomp.
Speaker B:So the ME could never actually determine why, how she died.
Speaker B:And then later on, he ended up confessing.
Speaker A:That's real dark and gross.
Speaker B:It's real dark.
Speaker B:And he does this with the next one, too.
Speaker B:So he later confessed that he choked her to death while they were having.
Speaker B:And not that he was angry, just that they were having sex.
Speaker B:And he just checked her out until she died.
Speaker B: n the next year, In August of: Speaker B:He had been struck in the head with a hammer.
Speaker B:And so police had actually stopped a man driving Grande's car after he was dead.
Speaker B:They didn't know he was dead, but they stopped his car, and there was a man in there with a woman.
Speaker B:He was likely sex worker.
Speaker B:And the guy driving the car told the police that he was Chuck Grande.
Speaker B:So the officer, he's like, here's my driver's license, which he pulled out of the glove box.
Speaker B:And even in the driver's license said, I'm five eight.
Speaker B:And Robert was well over six foot tall.
Speaker B:The officer is like, okay, guess your truck, and let him go.
Speaker B:So they let him go.
Speaker B:Then they find out, you know, that he was murdered.
Speaker B:And they later would bring Robert in for that, being pulled over, and they tried him for impersonation.
Speaker B:They're like, we can't get you for murder.
Speaker B:But then when he was on trial, they weren't able to say anything to the jury about the bird, the murders, or any of the other stuff that was stricken out of there.
Speaker B:So the jury found him not guilty.
Speaker B:So at this point, you know, he's been questioned for, like, three different murders, and the cops knew it, and they're just like, hey, we think you're guilty, but there is never enough evidence for arrest.
Speaker A:That's crazy.
Speaker B:But also what I think is really interesting, one of the reasons why this was also hard, there were at least three other serial killers that were operating in Rochester at that time.
Speaker A:Good Lord.
Speaker C:Yeah.
Speaker B:I was like, you did not want to be in Rochester.
Speaker B:So there was.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:Was at the height of the crack epidemic.
Speaker B:And there are a lot of sex workers, and so those tend to make pretty easy prey for serial killers.
Speaker B:So that is, you know, possibly one of the reasons why there were just.
Speaker B:There were so many bodies, and they were trying to figure out who belonged to what.
Speaker B:And it was just really hard for some of the police to, like, figure out to, you know, who it was.
Speaker B: Later, when he came back in: Speaker B:And that night, they were together, and Chuck only paid Robert for 40 of the $60 he promised him.
Speaker B:They got into a fight.
Speaker B:Chuck punched Robert, then Robert killed him.
Speaker B:So Robert killed him over $20.
Speaker B:He was also high on crack, but, you know, still like that sort of brutality.
Speaker B:So remember, that was.
Speaker B: That Last one was: Speaker B: And: Speaker B:Admitted to the.
Speaker B:The last murder.
Speaker B: So what happened between: Speaker A:Well, that.
Speaker A:And then, like, what, this, that.
Speaker A: That all of a sudden in: Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So he ends up.
Speaker B:He gets, you know, he gets thrown in jail.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But.
Speaker B: So that's: Speaker B:At 55 years old, Steven is.
Speaker B:I think I missed what was up.
Speaker B: Steven got released before: Speaker B:I can go back and find the dates, but whatever.
Speaker B: So he gets out in: Speaker B:Like, and he gets sentenced to three, 300 days in county.
Speaker B:He'd been out of prison for six months.
Speaker B:Like, Stephen was like.
Speaker B:He got released for the robbery and kidnapping, Got back in for parole violation, Gets out on that parole violation, then immediately goes out and tries to rob a bank.
Speaker B:And he didn't try and rob a bank with, like, a weapon or anything.
Speaker B:He just, like, kind of gave a note to the teller.
Speaker B:Steven said he was drunk at the time.
Speaker B:So interesting that that bank was robbing, like, four other four other places, too.
Speaker B:I would not want to work at that bank.
Speaker B: So in: Speaker B:And that was the last trace I could find of Stephen.
Speaker B:So theoretically, he's not.
Speaker B:I mean, he didn't show up any court dockets or within the state prison for New York.
Speaker B:But Robert is still in there, still has his hiv.
Speaker B:He's done a lot of interviews and other things we could talk to him.
Speaker B:But also, one of the parallels people think is interesting is that the death of Chuck was very similar to the death of Ripley in terms of the blunt force to the head.
Speaker B:So either that says the twins killed somebody in the exact same way or Robert, more likely.
Speaker B:What I think is that Robert was actually the one who hit him over the head and Steven stopped him.
Speaker A:But yeah.
Speaker B:So those are some evil twins.
Speaker A:Yeah, they're evil twins.
Speaker A:They're real evil twins.
Speaker A:And not super smart, by the way.
Speaker B:Well, and that's what's really, you know, they actually were smart dudes.
Speaker A:Well, I guess.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like they were always.
Speaker B:They were good students and they were just one.
Speaker B:Drug addicts, adrenaline junkies.
Speaker B:And they just never knew, like they just basically started with a life of crime and never like.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't think they can be rehabilitated.
Speaker B:And I'm not going to make a comment on the penal system, but it's like these guys were like in and out of jail so much they just kept him in there.
Speaker B:Like how many lives could have been saved.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's.
Speaker B:It's a very.
Speaker B:I think it's a really interesting story.
Speaker B:There's, like I said, there's a couple of TV shows that are out about them.
Speaker B:I encourage you to go watch them.
Speaker B:A lot of this came from a book from Michael Benson Is his last name Killer twins who did some really in depth studies into.
Speaker B:Into their lives.
Speaker A:But yeah, there you go.
Speaker A:Killer twins.
Speaker A:Evil twins.
Speaker A:Well,.
Speaker B:So our evil twins.
Speaker A:Our evil twins.
Speaker A:Now we've got figure out that Andy's evil twin is actually, well, his birth name or yeah, his birth name was whatever his real name was Anson Weems.
Speaker A:But in our episode we know him as Weber.
Speaker A:So all my, all my notes from here on out are a slash W, which then made me think about a W, which then made me want root beer.
Speaker A:So there you go.
Speaker B:But I just called him Weber.
Speaker A:But yeah, Weber.
Speaker A:So the busboy.
Speaker A:So now it's extra creepy because now you also realize that he was like went and intentionally got a job with Andy but didn't tell Andy who he was, which is fucked up.
Speaker B:So job was Andy's girlfriend and he doesn't work there.
Speaker A:Well, though Andy did for a minute.
Speaker A:They worked together.
Speaker A:They knew briefly had an overlap.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So anyways, he starts.
Speaker A:We cut to the restaurant.
Speaker A:We see him start like really creepily asking Tracy the waitress how come.
Speaker A:How close and serious Andy and her were when they were together.
Speaker A:Then we see brothers with Andy hauling ass to the restaurant because they want.
Speaker A:They figured this out and they want to go find Weber.
Speaker A:Well, while we're there, Sam starts.
Speaker A:While we're on the way, Sam starts having his visions.
Speaker A:And it's of Tracy about to jump off this bridge, which is a bridge right by a dam which I don't believe could exist in Oklahoma.
Speaker A:But that's okay.
Speaker B:They can have a reservoir.
Speaker B:I don't know.
Speaker A:It seemed very like it was very tall.
Speaker B:Also, I do not like that height.
Speaker B:I'm like, no.
Speaker B:Also when they, in the vision when she gets thrown off, it's obviously a dummy.
Speaker B:Like it's like the most obvious like dummy getting thrown off a thing.
Speaker B:But they, they also thought it was funny because Tracy was there and she got to watch this dummy of herself get like thrown off a bridge.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:But it was like as it's going down, I'm like, this is clearly like a blow up doll.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyway, so we cut.
Speaker A:We see Weber driving with Tracy to the bridge, to this bridge, dam, whatever.
Speaker A:And she's crying.
Speaker A:And this is real fucking creepy scene.
Speaker A:Real fucking creepy.
Speaker A:Like.
Speaker A:And he's talking about.
Speaker A:And he's talking to her about how like smart Andy is, but that and she can't have him.
Speaker B:Well, it's also, he says, this is where I take my girls.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh.
Speaker B:And I was like, yeah.
Speaker B:As much as I bitched about Andy being non consensual rapist, like you're fuck.
Speaker B:This is like fuck.
Speaker B:Like you're a goddamn rapist.
Speaker A:Like so vomiting real gross.
Speaker A:So the brothers and Andy show up.
Speaker A:Dean, they all agree Dean needs to stay back because he's obviously influenced by Webber's and of course Andy's powers.
Speaker A:So and Sam and Andy start, start getting ready to go over and confront Webber.
Speaker A:But they first they do get something out of trunk.
Speaker A:We have our tiny little almost cameo from trunk right here.
Speaker A:So they're cut.
Speaker A:We cut back to the car with Tracy and Webber.
Speaker A:And she's unbuttoning her shirt and crying.
Speaker A:And I'm like, oh, this is so gross and rapey.
Speaker B:So it's so uncomfortable.
Speaker B:I was like.
Speaker A:And he says something about like when we get done here.
Speaker B:And I'm like, oh.
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker B:There's like.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's terrifying.
Speaker B:It's terrifying.
Speaker A:It's not good because like she can't control herself at all.
Speaker A:It's not like physical, it's like mental control.
Speaker A:That's so scary.
Speaker A:Oh my God.
Speaker A:Really upsetting.
Speaker A:So then she, he explains to her that she's going to walk to the edge of the, of the, of the bridge.
Speaker A:Say, you're gonna think that you can fly and you're gonna step right off.
Speaker A:And if you, you know, if you question yourself, just say everything is okay.
Speaker A:And like this, she's crying and, like, trying not to cry because he told her not to cry, but she's really upset and butting her shirt.
Speaker A:And then Sam smashes the car window in with a gun and.
Speaker B:Which was satisfied.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:It's very satisfying.
Speaker A:You're like, yes, fuck this guy.
Speaker A:And so Andy gets Tracy out of the car.
Speaker A:Is like, nope, not.
Speaker A:Not with her anymore.
Speaker A:And Sam, like, just like pistol whiffs the.
Speaker A:Out of Weber.
Speaker C:It was pretty good.
Speaker C:So.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so they're.
Speaker B:Come on, use the words.
Speaker A:I lost my spot.
Speaker A:I know I lost my description because I was like, well, I don't know how much I want to go into the whole thing.
Speaker A:Basically the whole thing.
Speaker A:They have an altercation, but they try to duct tape his mouth shut because they're convinced that the only reason he's able to control anybody is because verbal commands.
Speaker A:But apparently that's not fucking it.
Speaker A:He's better than that and can use his fucking brain powers to make people do shit.
Speaker A:And makes good old Tracy hit Sam with a log.
Speaker A:And then Andy crosses the line with Tracy because Andy's never used his mind control on her because he actually cared about her and.
Speaker A:Which isn't what he says, but that's the implication here.
Speaker A:And makes her stop hitting Sam with a log, which means good, I guess.
Speaker A:But also, it's real creepy that it's like this weird battle of wills and.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So it's real, real gross and weird.
Speaker A:And then Sam.
Speaker A:Then we have, you know, there's a lot of, like, weird back and forth here.
Speaker A:And then you kind of.
Speaker A:You get to this Andy and Weber thing, trying to have a fucking moment about.
Speaker A:And Andy's like, the fuck, dude.
Speaker A:If you have a twin brother, you find out you have a secret twin.
Speaker A:You don't, like, sneak up, stalk them, you call them and, like, go have a beer.
Speaker A:Like, what the fuck?
Speaker A:And he's like, I just want to tell you, but I had to.
Speaker A:But they.
Speaker A:But he told me I had to wait.
Speaker A:He's like, who told you to wait?
Speaker A:The man with the yellow eyes.
Speaker A:And I'm like, damn it, demon.
Speaker A:Old creepy yellow eyes.
Speaker A:Old creepy, creepy, creepy yellow eyes in the mix again.
Speaker B:But I think it's also important because this is the first time we're seeing that he's interacting with someone and telling.
Speaker A:Them what to do.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:And he's doing it through their dreams.
Speaker B:He can't do me in my dreams.
Speaker B:But you know, I think foreshadowing of something likely.
Speaker B:But it's like, okay, so we know this.
Speaker B:He's not being passive.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:He's not just.
Speaker B:I didn't just make you to be a killer.
Speaker B:Now I'm going to go and tell.
Speaker A:You to do something influencing you to do stuff.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So anyway, so I was like, oh, shit.
Speaker A:And then we see Dean sneaking up with his rifle and a sight on it in the woods to try to like, he's like, ah, shit, this isn't going to plan.
Speaker A:I'm gonna have to snipe this.
Speaker A:So he's sneaking up, but.
Speaker A:And, and as he's sneaking up, you hear like, Andy and Weber are still having this weird conversation.
Speaker A:And like, he killed their birth mother and Doc because they separated them.
Speaker A:And he wants to kill Tracy because she's coming between them.
Speaker A:And like basically everything he's doing and killing is because him and his brother need to be together.
Speaker A:Which is weird.
Speaker A:But anyways, so.
Speaker A:But I guess he's got like some spidey senses now too on Weber because he senses Dean off in the woods with his, with a rifle.
Speaker A:And you, you hear him, you hear Weber say, I see you.
Speaker A:Bye bye.
Speaker A:And all of a sudden Dean just like calmly takes the rifle and rotates it and puts the muzzle on his chin.
Speaker A:It was very distressing scene.
Speaker A:Very distressing scene.
Speaker A:So right when you see this happen, you do hear gunshot, which then of course makes you like want to like throw your like drink in the air at that moment.
Speaker A:What the fuck?
Speaker A:But it was Andy shooting Weber because he realized that he was like, basically irredeemable.
Speaker A:And at that point.
Speaker A:So yeah, that's pretty much where the episode wraps up.
Speaker A:I mean like you go into the Andy, you know, it's the next day, the fucking cops are there.
Speaker A:Andy convinces the police that, you know, Weber shot himself and they saw happen themselves.
Speaker A:Which is real, like sketchy, but also like, I guess it kind of covers everybody that way.
Speaker A:Tracy is very, very like, is very distraught.
Speaker A:Obviously it was a really fucking traumatic night.
Speaker A:But he basically like, Andy knows that she's done because he used his powers on her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And she's gonna need some therapy.
Speaker B:And I can't imagine trying to explain this to a therapist.
Speaker B:Like, so this guy tried to mind control me and.
Speaker A:Oh yes, it's called gaslighting.
Speaker A:She's like, no, he actually like, I could not.
Speaker A:Like it was actual mind control.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And then she's going to end up in a mental institution.
Speaker B:So but then we do get to, you know, kind of.
Speaker B:Sam is still.
Speaker B:You know, Sam is still upset.
Speaker B:And we get into the.
Speaker B:What makes somebody a murderer?
Speaker B:And, you know, and Dean's like.
Speaker B:He's like, well, we kill people all the time.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker B:And Sam's like, that deserve it.
Speaker B:You know?
Speaker B:And Sam's like, no, we're still killing people.
Speaker B:So we're in into this theme again, reading this, pulled out.
Speaker A:And then Sam calls out, do you hear that?
Speaker A:Are you going to go to the comment that I was going to call out?
Speaker A:So Sam's like, I'll let you tell it.
Speaker A:But Sam's like, I heard when you.
Speaker A:I heard what you said when you're speaking the truth to Andy.
Speaker B:And then Dean says the most problematic line ever.
Speaker B:It's like, being roofied.
Speaker B:It doesn't count.
Speaker B:And I'm like, dude, this is not the episode for that line.
Speaker B:No, no, that is.
Speaker C:No.
Speaker A:I mean, I was like, well, maybe.
Speaker A:And I was like, that's why I was like, too.
Speaker A:I was like, what?
Speaker A:But I'm like, well, maybe he was like, trying to make.
Speaker A:Like, when you say things you don't mean if you've been drinking.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah, I know.
Speaker B:I think he was talking more about, like, the verbal thing, but also bad episode for that dude.
Speaker B:Bad, bad episode for that.
Speaker A:So, yeah, yeah, I was distraught by him as well.
Speaker A:I'm like, oh, my gosh.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:And then Dean gets a phone call from Ellen.
Speaker A:And so they go to the Roadhouse.
Speaker B:Roadhouse.
Speaker B:That's Roadhouse.
Speaker A:And she wants to know about their hunt.
Speaker A:And because Ash had shown her what they were searching for.
Speaker A:So in the background at this point, Soundgarden comes on with Fellow and Black Days.
Speaker A:You're wondering.
Speaker A:So Sam tells.
Speaker A:Basically says there are people like him and Andy that have abilities and that the demon had told them that he has plans for them.
Speaker A:They just don't know what those plans are.
Speaker A:But then Dean's like, yeah, we just have to find, like, you know, we follow a pattern of the house fires in this year, and da, da.
Speaker A:And then they point out that the pattern's been broken with this most recent one.
Speaker A:So she's like, so there's no way to track how many or who or what.
Speaker A:And they're like, no.
Speaker A:So then they start drinking whiskey.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker B:And Ellen's like, break out the whiskey and sex.
Speaker B:And I love her.
Speaker B:I'm just like, yes, this is solution, Helen.
Speaker B:We don't need beer.
Speaker B:We need whiskey.
Speaker A:Just go straight to the whiskey.
Speaker A:We were going to try it with beer.
Speaker A:Just to have, like, a convo.
Speaker A:But this is a.
Speaker A:This is obviously a whiskey conversation.
Speaker B:We have escalated to the whiskey.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:So, yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah, that's the episode.
Speaker A:I mean, and I know, like, I. I try not to get too in the weeds on the back and forth because it gets kind of complicated with, like, the mind control.
Speaker A:And, like, well, he told him to do this, but then Weber's doing this.
Speaker A:And, like, I don't know.
Speaker A:It was a lot to me.
Speaker A:I guess the reasons I would say I had, like, some mixed feelings about this episode were the things we talked about.
Speaker A:I found the.
Speaker A:The general rapiness.
Speaker A:Well, the mind control suicide, freaky as shit in both.
Speaker A:Like, especially, like, the gunshot and jumping off cliff.
Speaker A:Either way, super fucking freaky and upset.
Speaker A:And the fire, all of them very upsetting to me.
Speaker A:Like, I don't know.
Speaker A:Upsetting is a little dramatic.
Speaker C:I can't worry.
Speaker A:I found them.
Speaker A:It was just so dark.
Speaker A:That was really, like, a lot.
Speaker A:And then.
Speaker A:And then adding the rapiness in the middle of it was not helpful.
Speaker A:So it was a really fucked up, dark episode.
Speaker A:And I'm not.
Speaker A:And I'm annoying.
Speaker A:Sam's so annoying.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:We're back to Sam's being a little bitch.
Speaker A:Oh, he's such a little bitch.
Speaker A:I'm.
Speaker A:I can't help it.
Speaker A:I'm just made to be a killer and I'm broken.
Speaker A:And, man, this is sad.
Speaker A:And it's not my fault.
Speaker A:The demon and just a bit bad person.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Like, so exhausting.
Speaker B:It is.
Speaker B:It's very exhausting.
Speaker B:And, you know, and I think this is, you know, what happens when.
Speaker B:I think there's some issues, especially, you know, in season one and here, where we have this theme we're trying to get across.
Speaker B:And so.
Speaker B:But we're replaying it with.
Speaker B:Interloping it with Monsters of the Week, but we have to keep having this background story.
Speaker B:So the background story is getting dragged out, like, so long.
Speaker B:You're like, okay, I get it.
Speaker B:You're concerned about what makes someone a killer, and we get that.
Speaker B:So Jem, looks like we're at season, you know, episode five.
Speaker B:This is probably gonna be a large theme of the season is what makes.
Speaker B:What can you kill?
Speaker B:What makes you a murderer?
Speaker B:What makes you a hero?
Speaker B:You know, and then Dean said that Dre's like, you know, he was a hero.
Speaker B:You know, he killed.
Speaker B:You know, he took out the bad guy.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:He's like, but he still murdered somebody.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Like, why was there nothing else we could do besides.
Speaker B:But what could you do with this guy?
Speaker B:Decides Murder him.
Speaker B:He can control people with his mind.
Speaker B:Like, how do you.
Speaker C:How do you stop that?
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I think what's interesting, though, like, as dark as this episode was, it was also really light, right?
Speaker B:So we had.
Speaker A:There's a lot of fun and silliness in there too.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:That's what was interesting.
Speaker A:But, man, Sam just beat me down.
Speaker A:I was like, yeah, the woe is me thing was exhausting for an episode that I thought could have been really, really fun.
Speaker A:That kind of.
Speaker A:That almost did almost through the balance for me, but I still enjoyed it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's still.
Speaker B:I mean, it's kind of this.
Speaker B:I like the first, like, three quarters and then it was like, okay, we could have stopped it at the van.
Speaker B:Like, maybe if we just stopped it with the bong.
Speaker B:Spinal Tap playing.
Speaker B:Looking at a bong, Got a tiger.
Speaker B:Cool.
Speaker A:It was some greatness.
Speaker A:Like, the Spinal Tap tie in was super clever, really.
Speaker B:And Ash was amazing.
Speaker A:Ash is always amazing.
Speaker A:How do you look?
Speaker A:Oh, you and Ash.
Speaker A:I. I can't.
Speaker A:I. I get it.
Speaker A:I don't get that part.
Speaker A:I don't get the sexy ass on there, but I get enjoying ass.
Speaker A:How about that?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Like, everything.
Speaker A:Like, there's a lot of great little, like, bits.
Speaker A:I mean, like, even just Ellen with the joke, you know, upgrading from beer to Whiskey Joe, kicking people's ass on Big Buck Hunter.
Speaker A:Like, all the little, like, things throughout.
Speaker A:Like, they were.
Speaker A:It was really clever throughout.
Speaker A:All the.
Speaker A:All the inclusions of that.
Speaker A:The REO Speedwagon scene.
Speaker A:Like, that's greatness.
Speaker A:But, like, man, the dark.
Speaker A:The dark was real fucking dark.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And so was that a good enough balance of the two?
Speaker B:Like, do you make an episode that's gonna be the start, just be dark?
Speaker B:Or do you?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And so maybe it's just, you know, a matter of.
Speaker B:It could have.
Speaker B:I don't know, maybe he could have juggled it out a little bit better.
Speaker B:But so funny shit bother me.
Speaker A:The dark and light wasn't the.
Speaker A:I mean, it was dark, but in.
Speaker A:That part didn't throw me.
Speaker A:It was the dark and light.
Speaker A:Trying to balance those was a huge balance already, I think, trying to do that.
Speaker A:And also Sam's ass in there is what was throwing it off for me.
Speaker A:Does that make sense?
Speaker B:No, it does.
Speaker B:I mean, because especially once you start.
Speaker A:Getting annoyed, sensing this dark and light, and then I've got this, like, guy, like, I'm crying in the corner the whole time.
Speaker A:I'm like, that was just.
Speaker B:Suck it up soon.
Speaker B:I know, man.
Speaker A:Like, and Poor Dean's, like, getting mind control and, like, making, like, you know, he has to.
Speaker B:He has to leave Star wars jokes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there was.
Speaker B:There was a lot of Star wars jokes.
Speaker B:And this.
Speaker B:This was.
Speaker B:This was a nerd episode for sure.
Speaker A:But, yeah, so, yeah, there we go.
Speaker A:Overall, it was a really complex episode, which means that it's not a bad episode at all.
Speaker A:It means you have to be, you know, you can't be that complex and balanced and be bad.
Speaker A:It was a good episode.
Speaker A:I'm just.
Speaker A:I just got irritated, Sam.
Speaker A:And you got upset by really rapey stuff like you do.
Speaker C:It's susceptible.
Speaker B:It's kind of general.
Speaker B:Like, with me, rapiness makes me upset.
Speaker B:It does.
Speaker B:It just.
Speaker B:It just does.
Speaker A:Absolutely.
Speaker A:Fair.
Speaker B:Especially I think what makes me more upset, though, is the lack of acknowledgement of it.
Speaker B:It.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like, so I think if that had.
Speaker B:That was never brought up at the end, right.
Speaker B:In the end, they're like, oh, yeah, murder.
Speaker B:We're debating on this.
Speaker B:None of the actual.
Speaker B:This is why mind control is really shitty.
Speaker B:Like, that whole idea of, like, I am, like you said, you know, gaslighting and other things, like, these are.
Speaker B:These are people.
Speaker B:And to also men who are controlling other things around them to suit their needs, which is really bad, really problematic, and was not acknowledged.
Speaker B:And I think I probably would have felt better if, beyond just that, I.
Speaker A:Was a murderer, not just like, oh, that guy's a murderer, and this guy's lazy and has a lot of debt.
Speaker A:It was like, oh, by the way, you should probably not be unethically using your fucking brain powers to take advantage of other human beings and control them, especially for rapey things.
Speaker B:We've used that word too much.
Speaker B:Now I'm upset.
Speaker B:Okay, sorry.
Speaker B:Back to Ellen and her whiskey.
Speaker B:Whiskey.
Speaker B:That's the woman I want to think about.
Speaker B:Drink some shots.
Speaker A:Got some Soundgarden on the jukebox.
Speaker A:And Ellen in her roadhouse drinking whiskey in a roadhouse.
Speaker B:And then I would just go and, like, send it back to REO because, you know, I was like, you know, sound garden's too dark.
Speaker B:We're gonna go.
Speaker B:We're gonna go back to some speedwagon.
Speaker B:All right.
Speaker B:And sing it with her hair.
Speaker B:It's gonna come from her hair.
Speaker B:That's what's gonna happen, I think, at that.
Speaker B:You know, I don't think there's anything else we can onto the separate episode.
Speaker B:So I'm gonna close this out with a Cheers.
Speaker B:Jerk.
Speaker A:Cheers.
Speaker B:Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.
Speaker A:Be sure to follow us on Instagram Devilstrap Podcast, Twitter Devilstrap Pod or you can email us devilstrapevilstrappodcast.com don't forget to.
Speaker B:Subscribe, leave reviews and share it with all your friends.
Speaker B:We're available at all your metro podcast listening devices, so you can always find us@devilstrappodcast.com thanks.
Speaker C:Devil's Trap Podcast is a don't be a Dick production.
Speaker B:Meow Intro Music arrangement and performance by Dave Cox Piano arrangement and performance by Bobby Orozco Meow.
