Episode 2

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Published on:

9th Jan 2025

10:02 Reichenbach

This week's episode of the Devil's Trap podcast dives into the darker side of revenge and the moral complexities surrounding it, as the hosts discuss Season 10, Episode 2 of Supernatural, titled "Reichenbach." The discussion highlights the psychological ramifications of vengeance, with Liz and Diana emphasizing the need for Cole to seek therapy to process his trauma rather than resorting to violence. Liz tells the story of Mary Ellen Samuels, aka the Green Widow.

Research Links

Transcript
Liz:

On this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast, Don't hire a hitman.

Diana:

And Demon Dean tries to break the douche meter.

Diana:

Let's do this.

Diana:

Welcome to this week's episode of Devil's Trap podcast.

Diana:

I'm Diana.

Liz:

And I'm Liz.

Diana:

And We're Talk Season 10, Episode 2, Reichenbach.

Liz:

Good.

Liz:

Yeah, sure.

Liz:

That's how you say it.

Diana:

It is.

Diana:

Okay, cool.

Diana:

I was hoping.

Diana:

I hoped so.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So it's been.

Diana:

Been a little bit of a longer break, but we're back at it.

Diana:

Holidays are weird technically.

Liz:

Like, in terms of, like, podcast land.

Liz:

Like, there was just like a.

Liz:

A week off because we dropped one.

Liz:

And then instead of, like, take, you know, it's the holidays.

Liz:

People, like, things happen, and sometimes people get viruse.

Liz:

Make them vomit a lot and not be able to record.

Diana:

So, yes, all the things.

Diana:

So either way, we're back at it.

Diana:

It is:

Diana:

Crazy weird.

Diana:

Sure.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

We're in the future.

Diana:

The future is now.

Liz:

We're in the present.

Liz:

Past.

Diana:

Present, past.

Liz:

Whoa.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So what.

Diana:

What do you want to share?

Diana:

Anything you've been up to?

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

I'm like, I don't remember how to podcast.

Diana:

What are we doing?

Diana:

What's been going on with you?

Liz:

Also, not to, like, make a very disgusting coffee in the microphone.

Diana:

So I was trying not to sneeze.

Diana:

So, I mean, I feel you.

Liz:

Yeah, I know.

Liz:

We're sexy.

Liz:

Sexy over here.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So I went to.

Liz:

Oh, now.

Liz:

Now it feels weird.

Liz:

Yes.

Liz:

I went to New Orleans, and I went there before.

Liz:

Before New Year's and went on some.

Liz:

Some interesting things.

Liz:

And, like, I don't think we talked about this in the podcast.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

This is, like, time is not.

Liz:

It's just been weird.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

We've not talked about this, Right?

Diana:

Correct.

Liz:

Okay.

Liz:

So I went on a tour with Bloody Mary's tour, and she did, like, her house was on Ghost Adventures, like, two, too.

Liz:

She's been on there, like, three or four times.

Liz:

And so I picked her tour because it said, you know, there would be a van ride, which I'm like, not walking.

Liz:

Check.

Liz:

And then also, you know, a real investigation with paranormal equipment.

Liz:

I'm like, cool.

Liz:

That means actual ghost hunt.

Liz:

Check.

Liz:

These are things that I like.

Liz:

All right, so, like, this is the one that I pick.

Liz:

So I go to Bloody Mary's tour.

Liz:

It meets kind of on the edge of the corner border.

Liz:

And, you know, it means that her shop, which is also a museum, and she had said, you know, something had happened there and.

Liz:

But didn't say, like, what it was and just, you know, said if.

Liz:

Basically told people, like, if you knew if, you know, kind of like the surprise ending of a tour.

Liz:

Don't.

Liz:

Don't tell people.

Liz:

So first we go on the van tour, which goes through all the cemeteries, but you can't really go in cemeteries anymore because, well, people and governments.

Liz:

But a lot of the restrictions started happening to the cemeteries after Katrina, and then covet happened, and then so, like, now, like, St.

Liz:

Louis number one, there's, like, one tour group who's allowed to go in there, like, one point a day.

Liz:

But anyways, so.

Liz:

But we got to drive around, and so we're driving around New Orleans, and they got to see all the Christmas lights that were up.

Liz:

And, you know, this is pretty much, like, I just got to ride around New Orleans and see things.

Liz:

It was great.

Liz:

And then we went to her house to do some investigating there.

Liz:

Not with equipment, just with feeling things.

Liz:

And so apparently, like, on the show when they did it, the.

Liz:

The.

Liz:

The members.

Liz:

I forget which.

Liz:

Which members it was, but ran out of her house and said that they wouldn't go back in until she was there.

Liz:

But in, like, the front of the.

Liz:

The front room of the house, there's this giant, like, tree that's going through there and this really cool altar that's got, like, all these different.

Liz:

Like, all these different offerings and things on there.

Liz:

It was a really cool room.

Liz:

Then we go into her bedroom, and she just turns off the lights and gets into bed.

Liz:

And so this is.

Liz:

The tour group is like, about, like, fifth, maybe 10 people.

Liz:

There's a family.

Liz:

It was a mom and dad and a teenage son, and I think there was a teenage daughter and then, like, two goth sisters who were dressed to the nines.

Liz:

They were so amazing.

Liz:

I love them.

Liz:

And, like, one other solo lady, so not a huge group of people, but.

Liz:

But she.

Liz:

She just gets into bed and, like, shuts off the lights and then just starts telling us the stories of all the ghosts and the things that she's seen in there.

Liz:

And I'm just.

Liz:

This is the best job ever.

Liz:

Like, yeah, y'all just come to my house.

Liz:

I'm just gonna lie down and take a nap and tell you there and tell you.

Liz:

I'll tell you stories about the creepy that, like, crawled through my mirrors.

Diana:

Oh, that.

Liz:

Yeah, she told, like, about this, like, really weird, like, hate thing that, like, came through there.

Liz:

It was.

Liz:

That one was kind of terrifying, but she had thermal thermal night vision camera set up throughout her house and the shop so you could, like, Go in there and, like, watch things like through the thermal cameras, which was.

Liz:

It was just.

Liz:

Always just fun.

Liz:

And I.

Liz:

I could sit there and, like, watch that forever.

Liz:

So with that, and then we go back to the museum that's in the quarter and we go upstairs to do the investigation.

Liz:

She splits us into two groups.

Liz:

And I got sent off with the family.

Liz:

So I did not get to make friends with the goth girls, which was kind of.

Liz:

And instead I got Dina to hang out with this.

Liz:

This family.

Liz:

And yeah, there was a girl because she was talking about how the dolls were freaking her out and Bloody Mary gave her the reason, you know, about.

Liz:

You know.

Liz:

You know, I gave her the spooky reason.

Liz:

And then we ended up going into this room to do an investigation that was full of creepy dolls.

Diana:

Oh, no.

Liz:

And then I gave her the scientific explanation about why the dolls freaked her out, because I couldn't was like, no, you know, like, I.

Liz:

I had to hermione my way into there.

Diana:

But yeah, yeah.

Liz:

So we go through there and like, we do the investigation, like one part of the house.

Liz:

We go into the kitchen.

Liz:

In the kitchen, there's a refrigerator and there's a stove, and then there's a bathroom.

Liz:

And she was like.

Liz:

I kind of think of them, the two separate spaces.

Liz:

And, you know, I kept asking for things to appear in the mirror.

Liz:

And the, The.

Liz:

The.

Liz:

You would have really appreciated this, the young boy who was with our group, because I was like, yeah, you know, and he was like, no, thank you.

Liz:

I would not like anything to appear in the mirror.

Liz:

And.

Diana:

Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right.

Diana:

That's probably what I would have been saying too.

Diana:

I'd be like, nope.

Liz:

Yeah, so we go through, you know, we get done with that.

Liz:

We all go back and we all accumulate and sit in the.

Liz:

In the living room, turns out.

Liz:

And she tells us the story.

Liz:

This is the house where, like, one of the most famous, infamous, like, true crime New Orleans shits happened.

Liz:

Like, right after Katrina, there was this young guy named Zach who murdered his girlfriend Addie and dismembered her and cooked her in the stove and, like, wrote all over the walls, like, all this crazy.

Liz:

And then he murdered.

Liz:

He committed.

Liz:

He took his own life.

Liz:

Sorry, trigger warning there, but too late.

Liz:

But he took his own life, I think on Caesars.

Liz:

And there was a no.

Liz:

And then they went to the house, and when they went in the house, like, they found all the stuff, like, and so she was in the stove and she was in the fridge.

Liz:

And it's the stove in the fridge that is in that house still.

Diana:

Is that a biohazard?

Liz:

Yes.

Liz:

That's.

Diana:

That's distressing.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And so.

Liz:

So all the crazy is still on the walls.

Liz:

It's just been painted over.

Liz:

And it was just, you know, it was just like.

Liz:

And this one of the craziest, like, most.

Liz:

Like, I was like, everybody knows the story.

Liz:

I know not everybody, but I know the story.

Liz:

And when she started telling it, I was like, holy.

Liz:

Like, that was here.

Liz:

And.

Liz:

But I am kind of glad she did it at the end.

Liz:

It was like the bias of the investigation, you know, would have been so much more different had I known that story.

Diana:

Right, right.

Diana:

We've been looking for it.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And so, like, for conducting, you know, a scientific paranormal investigation, like, it's.

Liz:

It was kind of cool.

Diana:

There's some air quotes there, guys.

Diana:

Air quotes there.

Diana:

But we won't talk about that.

Liz:

Hey.

Liz:

I mean, technically, going by scientific method, right?

Liz:

You're observing, you know, and just trying to think, keep.

Liz:

Do things as objective as possible.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

Because there were, you know, words and things that were coming over the Oculus and that, you know, we interpret, you know, based on what you know of the story.

Liz:

Right, sure.

Liz:

Because it will.

Liz:

Like, dismemberment did come across there once.

Diana:

Yikes.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

There was, like, a little creepy closet that I did not crawl into because it was dirty.

Liz:

I was just like, no, that's too dirty.

Diana:

Hilarious.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So that was my.

Liz:

That was my.

Liz:

My holiday festivities.

Diana:

Nice.

Diana:

Mine were a little different, but not.

Diana:

Not as exciting, so that's cool.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

I did very, very normal stuff in the Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex with, like, I say normal.

Diana:

I don't know if that's normal, but doing stuff.

Diana:

I did stuff with the family.

Diana:

We did all the Christmas things, and then we did New Year's.

Diana:

I did go see the Broadway Peter Pan, which was cute.

Diana:

And then.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Trying to think.

Diana:

I feel like I did other things, but I don't know.

Diana:

So there we go.

Diana:

I didn't see that many.

Diana:

I didn't see that much music.

Diana:

How about that?

Diana:

That's the weird thing.

Diana:

That's the weird part for you.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

These things are kind of in a little low right now.

Diana:

Oh, it'll change again soon.

Diana:

Don't worry.

Liz:

Exciting for you.

Diana:

No, but.

Diana:

But yeah.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

And then we're all getting ready to buckle down here in Texas to freeze our booties off this week.

Diana:

So that'll be fun.

Liz:

It's a winter event.

Diana:

Is a winter event.

Diana:

I don't like the cold, but.

Diana:

No, it's, you know, cold.

Liz:

Is a pain in the ass.

Liz:

Cold makes me have to do things.

Liz:

Cold is stressful.

Diana:

I'm not.

Diana:

I'm.

Diana:

I don't like cold if I have to do anything, so.

Liz:

And I have to do things, like there is just stuff that I have to do multiple times a day.

Liz:

It's fucking weather.

Diana:

I hear you.

Liz:

Isn't that right, kitty?

Liz:

My cute little cat is sitting here looking at me going, it's cold.

Liz:

Come sit on the couch with me.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So let's.

Diana:

Let's talk about this episode.

Liz:

So Reichenbach.

Liz:

The episode title, according to Supernatural Wiki, may be a reference to Reichenbach Falls, which is the series of waterfalls in Switzerland where Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty meet their end in the final problem, which was the first time that Sherlock Holmes was killed.

Liz:

Like, he was supposed to be killed forever.

Liz:

And then they're like, oh, wait, you can still make money off of this.

Liz:

And he was like, okay, I'll bring him back.

Liz:

But I mean, I'm assuming that's what Doyle did.

Liz:

I.

Liz:

But so, yeah, I went and read that story and it was not that interesting because I was really trying really hard to figure out what Laura to do for this episode.

Liz:

So I went down that.

Liz:

That rabbit hole of where Bok.

Liz:

And also just trying to figure out why the hell this is named Drakenbach.

Liz:

And I still don't know.

Diana:

I bet that's it.

Diana:

That makes.

Diana:

I mean, some or some kind of a Sherlock Holmes reference has make sense.

Liz:

But I mean, what like who.

Liz:

Who's a homes who's like.

Liz:

It's not like somebody's like really their nemesis because, like, Cole is like Dean's nemesis, but is he?

Liz:

Yeah, so we'll get into that.

Liz:

,:

Liz:

It was directed by Thomas J.

Liz:

Wright.

Liz:

And we last saw him this season direct.

Liz:

It was last season.

Liz:

We saw him because it's this is Season Episode 2 of this of this season.

Liz:

So last season we saw him do episode 23, do you believe in miracles?

Liz:

And episode 18's meta fiction, and it was written by Andrew Dab, who last season we last saw do episode 22, Stairway to Heaven, and also 20s bloodlines.

Liz:

So, yeah, that happened.

Diana:

All right.

Liz:

Yep.

Diana:

,:

Diana:

We've got a mom, a man, a woman, and a mom, dad, and a kid, a little boy.

Diana:

And this little kid sees a bunch of blood and the carpet and finds his bloody dead dad on the floor.

Diana:

And he's Crying on his bloody dead dad.

Diana:

And then Dean enters with a bloody knife.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And then we figure out this is the flashback.

Liz:

And Cole's flashback to Dean killing his dad.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

He's telling Sam the story.

Diana:

And Sam's like, I'm sorry, but by the way, Dean's not really Dean right now.

Diana:

And he.

Diana:

Cole wants us to know that every night since he was 13 years old, he closes his eyes and he sees Dean and that blood and his daddy.

Liz:

Cole, you need therapy, like real bad.

Liz:

You shouldn't.

Liz:

Like, I'm sorry you had trauma, but you need to process that trauma.

Liz:

What you're doing right now is not healthy.

Diana:

Correct.

Diana:

But he's like, but Sam, you've got no reason to protect Dean.

Diana:

You got to help me.

Diana:

And Sam's like, nah.

Diana:

Dean had.

Diana:

Must have had a reason.

Diana:

There are real monsters out there.

Diana:

So sorry.

Diana:

And Cole's like, I know monsters.

Liz:

It's not a metaphor, Cole.

Diana:

So apparently Cole was so traumatized by his dad's murder at Dean's hands that he went special forces and did a lot of really dangerous chores in the military.

Liz:

It says that he, you know, he says he did two tours in Iraq.

Liz:

Special Ops Star 4 and the Congo.

Liz:

And it was like, you should be in daily therapy.

Liz:

Like, you should literally be sitting like doing nothing else but going to like group.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Like, I don't know.

Liz:

So also, why did the military let you do all those things?

Liz:

This seems like at some point they.

Liz:

They should have probably said, hey you.

Liz:

Yo.

Liz:

Like you need to.

Liz:

To back off a little bit, buddy.

Diana:

But it's a lot.

Diana:

It's a lot.

Liz:

So.

Diana:

And Sam's like, no, no, this.

Diana:

This type of monster I'm talking about is vampires and werewolves.

Diana:

Like monster monsters.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And Cole calls him a psycho liar.

Diana:

And he's digging through Sam's go bag and is very unimpressed with a flask full of holy water and gets out some very, very beat up gloves and a hammer.

Liz:

And he just looks really happy to start torturing and just is not.

Liz:

Just not mentally well.

Liz:

It's just not.

Diana:

Yeah, it is.

Diana:

It is not good.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

Holy.

Diana:

Sorry, that's a personal problem.

Diana:

So, yeah, so we get our intro there and we go to Killdeer, North Dakota, where at a strip club where Cherry Pie is playing.

Liz:

See, I don't know.

Liz:

This is a strip club.

Liz:

I think maybe it's a good bikini club.

Diana:

Yeah, Club like a go bar.

Liz:

Which is.

Liz:

This is.

Liz:

Seems sadder in a way.

Liz:

You know, but you know, you gotta earn your money.

Liz:

Whatever girls gotta eat but yeah, and.

Diana:

Dean gets his hand slapped for touching.

Liz:

He's just Douche Dean.

Liz:

It's like what I call him for most of this episode.

Liz:

Just Douche Dean.

Diana:

Super Douche Dean.

Diana:

And he holds up a lot of cash and just throws money at her and tells her to pick it up.

Diana:

Like, oh, you bra.

Diana:

Anyways, yeah, yeah.

Liz:

I'm surprised he didn't get a stiletto in his eye.

Diana:

Well, security grabs him finally because she's like, nope.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

But Dean decides that he's going to headbutt the security guard.

Diana:

And then, yeah, as that's happening, we get a really good cut back and forth where Colt.

Diana:

We get to where Dean is beating up security and Cole is starting to torture Sam.

Diana:

These are cuts back and forth.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And.

Liz:

But the Dean thing is just so uncomfortable.

Liz:

Like, why are you excessively beating this.

Liz:

This poor man who's just trying to protect this woman who's doing her job?

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

And so it's really like the poor Cole.

Diana:

Of course Sam is getting tortured by Cole.

Diana:

And Sam's tell Sam tells him to blow it out his ass.

Diana:

And right when he lines up the hammer on Sam's kneecap.

Diana:

And I'm like distressed.

Diana:

Distressed.

Diana:

And then his phone rings.

Diana:

Thank God.

Diana:

So he has to step out and take a call from his family.

Liz:

And he leaves Sam Winchester alone with some keys and a knife.

Liz:

Which is ridiculous.

Liz:

Why would you do that?

Diana:

So obviously Sam escapes.

Diana:

So we figure out later, like this is so obvious.

Diana:

Like there.

Diana:

I'm like, that's too, too obvious.

Diana:

And it was.

Diana:

It was intentionally obvious, apparently.

Diana:

So anyways, Dean's gonna walk out of the strip club.

Diana:

And young.

Diana:

So he gets walked into by some younger guys and they call him a grandpa.

Diana:

And I was like, ouch.

Diana:

But also you, Dean, you're kind of a douche.

Diana:

You kind of deserve in this one.

Diana:

But I'm kind of glad he doesn't kill them.

Liz:

Yeah, I'm glad he does not kill the teenagers or hurt them.

Liz:

That's great.

Diana:

Yes.

Liz:

And Crowley is waiting and he wants to talk to Dean about his anger.

Liz:

Anger management issues.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And yeah.

Diana:

So we cut then to Cass.

Diana:

And he is on a dock where they have a community sink wash.

Diana:

I guess it's like for washing the fishes.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

Washing his hands and trying to heal himself.

Diana:

But not doing a very good job at healing himself because he's out of grace.

Diana:

So Hannah has to do it.

Diana:

And he's like, no, Hannah, you should just go, you know, it's fine.

Diana:

And she's like, no, no, I'm gonna stay and help.

Diana:

That's very human of you.

Diana:

Sam calls.

Diana:

And Sam finally is going to tell Cass a get to North Dakota because Crowley's there, Dean's there, and.

Diana:

Oh yeah, Dean is a demon.

Diana:

Huh.

Diana:

So there we go.

Diana:

So they're going to meet there and Sam is going to go steal this.

Liz:

Really cool pickup truck that fortunately works.

Diana:

Fortunately.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So Cass and Hannah are driving and to go meet Sam.

Diana:

And she has decided she's going to inform Cass that she thinks the Winchesters are a bad influence on him.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

Which I think is kind of funny.

Diana:

And he.

Diana:

But Cassiel's like, no, they are the best men I've ever known.

Diana:

And they're my friends, so.

Diana:

And then they like to look at the stars.

Diana:

And then Cass is going to fall asleep driving because he's sleepy without his grace.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So he falls asleep with a wheel and he wrecks.

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

Crowley and Dean are at a bar.

Diana:

And Dean is ordering shots and something fancy with the tiniest umbrella for Crowley.

Liz:

Which I think sounds delightful.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

I want something fancy with umbrellas.

Diana:

And Crowley's like asking Dean how he's feeling because obviously the mark has changed him.

Diana:

And Dean's like, oh, I noticed.

Diana:

And we get black eye.

Diana:

Gemini.

Liz:

But yeah.

Liz:

Which I just.

Liz:

It's not attractive.

Liz:

I don't think it's a good look for Mr.

Liz:

Ackles.

Diana:

No.

Liz:

No.

Diana:

I think what bothers me is like, it makes like a little like a shutter sound effect.

Diana:

You know what I mean?

Diana:

Like when he does that blink and get a little.

Diana:

They always have like a little to that blink.

Diana:

Like.

Diana:

Yeah, it's like a camera.

Diana:

Like a little shutter.

Diana:

It's weird and I kind of.

Diana:

I love that they did it, but I hate it.

Diana:

Does that make sense?

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

All right.

Diana:

Well, the bartender delivers on these drinks, by the way.

Diana:

Crowley's drink has a lot of accoutrements, including a little pitchfork, which is adorbs.

Liz:

I want the little pitchfork so bad.

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

And Crowley's like, yeah, Dean, I know you want to have fun, fun, fun.

Diana:

But you need to kill.

Diana:

And because death is your drug, you're an addict or something.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

Oh, that's weird.

Liz:

So Crowley has someone who has it coming, right?

Liz:

And so he has picked this lady, Mindy.

Liz:

And Mindy Morris is cheating on her husband and she wanted a divorce.

Liz:

And also half of her husband's.

Liz:

So this guy Lester has basically made a demon trade and decided he wanted trade his soul to kill Mindy and.

Liz:

Yo.

Liz:

What the.

Liz:

Like, cheating on someone does not make it okay for you to be killed.

Liz:

That is not like a thing that it just.

Liz:

But Dean somehow goes along with this, right?

Diana:

Well, and the part of the whole reason is, is Crowley's like, you gotta fucking kill people because you're addicted to murder.

Diana:

So I'm gonna find people for you to kill.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

And so this basic client that he's offering is Lester.

Liz:

And what Lester is doing is something that we're gonna call being a green widow.

Liz:

And we're going to talk about another green widow who is pretty infamous for that.

Liz:

And that is the infamous case of it is an infamous many times Mary Ellen Samuels.

Liz:

And she is the green widow.

Liz:

And I'll tell you why she's called that in a minute.

Liz:

So this is lore, I guess.

Liz:

,:

Liz:

His ex wife Mary Ellen and stepdaughter Nicole were the ones who discovered the body and made the call.

Liz:

They said they were over there to go get the dog.

Liz:

So they have put a dog in the middle of the situation that just says what kind of people they are.

Liz:

So Bob was a cameraman and he had worked in several well known 80s films like Heaven Can Wait.

Liz:

Real genius.

Liz:

The Color Purple, Short Circuit, the best movie of all time.

Liz:

Some kind of wonderful.

Liz:

Beverly Hills Cop too.

Liz:

Just on and on.

Liz:

So he was doing okay on that.

Liz:

But also he and Mary Ellen co owned a subway shop.

Liz:

And when I first like saw this, they're like, they owned a subway shop.

Liz:

And I was like, oh, what kind of Sam?

Liz:

Like what kind of sandwich shop did they own?

Liz:

And then I was like, oh wait, no, it was an actual subway.

Diana:

Huh.

Liz:

So it was determined that Bob had been both hit in the head and shot through a pillow by a success 16 gauge shotgun.

Liz:

And there was no evidence of a burglary.

Liz:

And at first the police cleared Mary Ellen and Nicole saying everything they did seems fine.

Liz:

But Mary Ellen got money from several insurance policies totaling around $240,000.

Liz:

She also sold the subway for a profit, around 70,000.

Liz:

She kept his car, received $6,000 in uncashed payroll checks at Roberts and refinance their family home after his death.

Liz:

And so she got another like 160,000 out of that.

Liz:

Right.

Liz:

And so this kind of suspicious, but they don't have anything on her.

Liz:

Let's go by and the investigation kind of goes cold until the cops get a tip.

Liz:

And that tip says to go look at Nicole's ex boyfriend, a drug dealer named Jim Bernstein.

Liz:

However, when they go looking for him they found him strangled to death.

Liz:

And so that's in July:

Liz:

It's like, you know, probably about like a year after the first thing.

Liz:

So Robert's dead.

Liz:

Now.

Liz:

The guy who they said killed him now also been dead.

Liz:

So this is what they found out, that Jim had been dealing drugs with Dave Navarro, who told the police.

Liz:

Now, apparently it is not that Dave Navarro, but I was gonna keep saying his name.

Liz:

Apparently, though, Jim had confessed to Dave Navarro that he and Mike Silva had killed Robert and that Mary Ellen had paid him for it.

Liz:

,:

Liz:

So about like six months after Jim dies, they arrest Mary Ellen.

Liz:

And this is what they and the prosecutors sorted out.

Liz:

Okay?

Liz:

On Halloween in:

Liz:

And it was cordial.

Liz:

And they were both like, we're going to work at the subway.

Liz:

We co own, and everything's going to be fine.

Liz:

But two years later, Robert went to his divorce attorney and was like, hey, we need to like, fix this, because I want the subway to myself, and I don't want to pay all this alimony because I can't afford it.

Liz:

Nicole begins telling her boyfriend, Jim Bernstein, the drug dealer, that her stepfather abused her and that he should be taken care of.

Liz:

Prosecutors also said that when Samuels was found dead, that this wasn't the first time.

Liz:

That first attempt that Mary Ellen had made on his life, she had tried to get him drunk and left him alone at a restaurant so it'd be easier for a hitman to kill him.

Liz:

Another plot involved getting him drunk and driving him off a cliff.

Liz:

Once, Mary Ellen even tried beating him with a broomstick, but that didn't work either.

Liz:

She complained bitterly to her friend that she had hired hitman and tried to do him three or four times and spent almost $15,000 and nothing happened.

Diana:

Geez.

Liz:

So after Nicole has told Jim these things, Jim has asked his employer if he knows of anybody who can help take care of Samuels.

Liz:

And he was provided with a number of this guy, Mike Silva.

Liz:

And look, I can tell you guys right now, there are no actual hitmen in the world.

Liz:

Like, the only people on the other side of the hitman call are the federal agents who are waiting to take you to jail.

Liz:

Don't hire a hitman online.

Liz:

That's not a hitman.

Liz:

That is a policeman.

Diana:

Just don't do it.

Liz:

Like, every story, like, of the things I was trying to pick out here for this, like, there are a lot of.

Liz:

I went to hire a hitman, but it was just.

Liz:

Just the FBI.

Diana:

Cole is not the one on the other end of that response.

Liz:

He is not.

Liz:

He is not.

Liz:

And you really don't want to talk to Cole anyways.

Liz:

All right, so apparently he also, like, Jim was talking to his friend, trying to get some weapons, but so he go ahead.

Liz:

And him and this guy Mike apparently are the ones who do the deed.

Liz:

I don't know what ends up happening with Mike Silva.

Liz:

That one was kind of murky for me.

Liz:

But so Mary Ellen, though, starts getting afraid that Jim is going to talk, right?

Liz:

And so in the spring of:

Liz:

Paul, go.

Liz:

So Mary Ellen told Paul she wanted Robert originally killed for the insurance money and because he abused Cole.

Liz:

And, you know, she started telling him all this stuff and started telling him about killing Jim because now she was afraid he was going to talk.

Liz:

And apparently they discussed payment like, two to four times.

Liz:

Then she told Paul that she was going to take a trip to Cancun and wanted Jim gone before she came back.

Liz:

She said she would pay him $5,000 and also forgive a loan to that to Ann, Paul's girlfriend.

Liz:

So Paul didn't want to do this by himself, so he solicited this guy, Darrell Ray Edwards, and he said he would do it for $5,000, which I'm just like, this math isn't adding up here.

Liz:

Like, I think you're kind of going into, like, the hole on this, right?

Liz:

Like, you're not really making a profit, right?

Diana:

That's a problem.

Liz:

I'm gonna raise the price on that.

Liz:

And it just doesn't feel like being a hitman's, like, a good business model.

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

So Mary Ellen gets Jim to move in with Anne Hambly and Paul Gaul.

Liz:

And he was like, he was afraid that the police were closing in on him.

Liz:

So they get them to, like, get closer together, right?

Liz:

And then in the sun in June, Paul and Edwards meet at a bar, and they start day drinking.

Liz:

They decide that they're going to tell Jim that they're going to go rob some drug dealers in Fraser Park.

Liz:

So that's what they tell him, and he eventually agrees to go with him.

Liz:

So they all get in the car.

Liz:

They are in Mary Ellen's car.

Liz:

Mary Ellen's not in the car, but they are.

Liz:

Paul, this guy Edwards, and then Jim, the original guy who murdered her husband.

Liz:

The first time he's in the car, right?

Liz:

And so they're driving around, and they end up like driving.

Liz:

They thought they were in a dirt road, but it was a driveway.

Liz:

And then all these dogs are like taking off at the car.

Liz:

And so all these dogs are chasing them down the road and they freak out and so they have to turn around.

Liz:

So they go into another road and like, like five or ten minutes later, Daryl Edwards yells now.

Liz:

And Paul slams on the brakes and he puts a car in park.

Liz:

And Daryl starts to choke Jim from behind.

Liz:

Then Paul hits Jim on the head because Jim wouldn't stop screaming.

Liz:

But Jim got the car door open and then ran out.

Liz:

Then Paul and Daryl are now chasing him around the car until Daryl tackles him to the ground.

Liz:

Finally, Paul holds his leg down while Daryl chokes him to death.

Liz:

When Jim was asking him why, Daryl said it was because he talked too much.

Liz:

And then after three to five minutes of strangulation, Jim finally died.

Liz:

That is something else people remember.

Liz:

Strangulation takes a long time.

Liz:

It's not quick like in the movie theaters.

Liz:

It's a really long, horrible thing.

Liz:

So they put his body in the back seat, they throw his belt and his pager out of the car and eventually throw his body off an embankment.

Liz:

They go back to the house, they tell Anne, who calls Mary Ellen, who is in Cancun, tell her the code they agreed to, which was I have spoken to your sister.

Liz:

And that meant that Ellen, Mary Ellen could come back.

Liz:

So at the when they serve the arrest warrant, they find this office stuff, including a Polaroid of Mary Ellen naked on a bed in Cancun covered in piles of money.

Diana:

What?

Diana:

I mean, that just sounds fun.

Liz:

It's a pretty epic photograph.

Diana:

Can we do this?

Diana:

How do we make this happen?

Liz:

Well, you don't want to do it this way.

Liz:

So the prosecutors are making the case that Mary Ellen killed her husband to live a lavish lifestyle.

Liz:

Evidence of the defendant's callousness and indifference included Defendants posing for a photograph recovered only in money.

Liz:

Commencing relationship with Dean Groover, forging Robert Samuel's mother's signature and refinancing the home she inherited after Samuel's death and providing fraudulent information on the related loan documents.

Liz:

Evidence of defendants extravagant purchases included a new Porsche automobile, costly custom clothing from a store called Trashy Lingerie Scuba Equipment.

Liz:

Yes, Trashy Lingerie, the most amazing store in LA, which still exists.

Liz:

Scuba equipment for Dean Groover, a 30 inch television and car phone and a fur coat.

Liz:

Additional evidence of defendants lavish lifestyle included a trip to Mexico and the purchase of property in Cancun, Mexico.

Liz:

Financial investment in Groover Productions paying for the cost of Others to travel to Las Vegas, San Francisco and Cancun.

Liz:

Being free with her money, throwing a birthday party for herself at a country club, using limousines for transportation, and expending most, if not all of the money she received from Robert Samuel's death within one year.

Liz:

They also said that the defendant attended bars and clubs.

Liz:

Defendant received pornographic letters.

Liz:

Defendant used drugs.

Liz:

Defendant allowed her daughter to drop out of high school.

Liz:

Defendant allowed her daughter to leave the family home at age 16.

Liz:

Defendant took her minor daughter and her minor friends to bars.

Liz:

Defend his daughter and her daughter's friends use drugs supplied by defendant while at defendant's house.

Diana:

What?

Liz:

Defendant influenced her daughter and her daughter's friends dress inappropriately.

Diana:

Oh, God.

Liz:

Defendant allowed her daughter to take a trip to Mexico with James Bernstein, the one who killed the first Huntsman.

Liz:

Defendant's daughter allowed herself to be photographed in a suggestive position.

Liz:

Defendant's daughter refused to return or pay for jewelry she had hawked that had been bought for her by James Bernstein with David Navarro's credit card and suggested that a false insurance claim be made.

Liz:

Defendant's daughter was engaged to Jim Bernstein while engaged to another man.

Liz:

So those are all the things a prosecutor says about her, including during the sentencing thing.

Liz:

She, Mary Ellen receives the death penalty.

Liz:

It was however, commuted to life in prison due to her council's failing to limit and exclude the bad character evidence admitted during the sentencing phase for, you know, the basically saying the jury sentencer to death for being a shitty mother, not for the crime of what she actually did.

Liz:

Right.

Diana:

Like, so they're like, I mean, yeah, you got to be actually sentenced for the crime, not just, yeah, she probably.

Liz:

Shouldn'T have been doing a bunch of blow with her daughter.

Liz:

However, should that influence your decision in her death penalty case?

Liz:

So she is currently incarcerated at the Central California Women's facility at Chow.

Liz:

Hila.

Liz:

Paul G.

Liz:

And Daryl Edwards both pleaded guilty to killing Bernstein and were sentenced to 15 years to life.

Liz:

That was the green widow, Mary Ellen Samuels.

Diana:

Wow, that's.

Diana:

That's something.

Diana:

I don't know if Lester is this organized.

Liz:

I do not think so.

Liz:

And you know, I have a lot of, you know, additional thoughts on you, but kind of like you Lester.

Liz:

And in the end I think Lester.

Diana:

No, fully you Lester.

Diana:

I'm with you.

Diana:

Yeah, like, oh, I.

Diana:

Because it could.

Diana:

Because at what we find out, yeah, we've got Dean's watching Mindy and then realizes, well.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yes, they're, they're going, they're, they're getting the car fixed and some nice woman that Drives a tow truck.

Liz:

Tow trunk driver ever.

Liz:

Like, she's pulled their.

Liz:

Their car that he is wrecked off the side of the road.

Liz:

She has towed them to their house, just letting them in there with her.

Liz:

With her underage minor child.

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

And there.

Diana:

And her three bean surprise.

Diana:

Ew.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

I looked at recipes for it.

Liz:

It's all gross.

Diana:

Like the.

Diana:

I understand three bean, but what's the surprise?

Diana:

So Dean is watching Mindy that he has been hired, I guess by.

Diana:

Ordered by Crowley to kill for Lester.

Diana:

And Lester decides to.

Diana:

Like a dumb ass decides to.

Diana:

He wants to pull up and watch this happen.

Diana:

Like.

Diana:

And so Dean rightfully goes and tells him, this is dumb.

Diana:

You're not supposed to be here because then you don't have a alibi.

Diana:

But anyways.

Diana:

And Dean's kind of like, not.

Diana:

Not.

Diana:

He does not have any sympathy or like, goodwill towards Lester, which is interesting because Dean's supposed to be a demon.

Diana:

But Dean is deeply unimpressed and pieces together and asks and guesses correctly that Lester cheated first.

Diana:

So.

Liz:

Yep.

Liz:

And Mindy is just way out of Lester's league to begin with.

Liz:

Like, what's.

Diana:

How do you pull that?

Diana:

Like, I just.

Diana:

Okay, well, Lester tries to go on the men are different than women and aren't built for monogamy speech.

Diana:

And then Dean punched him in the face.

Liz:

Yes.

Liz:

Was.

Liz:

All of us were.

Liz:

Thank you.

Liz:

Because we all wanted to punch him in the face for that.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yes.

Diana:

And then Lester decides to call Dean a punk ass demon and tell him that he works for him.

Diana:

Big freak.

Diana:

So Dean's.

Diana:

You want to watch?

Diana:

Watch this.

Diana:

And stabs him.

Diana:

So Dean kills Lester instead of Mindy.

Liz:

Well, nobody cries.

Diana:

Nobody cries.

Diana:

Nobody's sad.

Diana:

But we all know I would have been like.

Liz:

I would have been really upset.

Liz:

Like, I'm not upset that he killed Leps Lester at all.

Liz:

I would have been very upset if he had killed Mindy.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Not cool.

Diana:

So Sam has made his way, though, to the strip club where Dean got in his fight and is talking to the injured security guard.

Diana:

And they are both in shoulder slings.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

They're like, hey, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Diana:

And also, Sam is using a Let me Killmeister as his FBI name right now, which is fun.

Liz:

He sure is.

Diana:

It's cute.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And he's driving this sick:

Diana:

And Cole is following him.

Diana:

So back at the tow truck driver's house, because.

Diana:

What the.

Diana:

Why not?

Diana:

We've got.

Diana:

Cartoons are on.

Diana:

And a little girl sitting next to Castiel wanted to ask about his Dreams.

Diana:

Because she dreamed about snot and rockets and is eating dry cereal.

Diana:

And Cass doesn't have dreams.

Diana:

But our truck driver is eavesdropping and tells Hannah that she has a great guy in Cass.

Liz:

How the do you know that?

Liz:

Like, you literally picked him up off the side of the road and he slept on your couch all night, lady.

Liz:

Like the do you want.

Diana:

Well, because Hannah's sitting there looking at him fondly from the door frame.

Diana:

Probably doesn't help anything, but.

Diana:

Yeah, you know.

Diana:

Yeah, I know.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

It's a little presumptuous of our tow truck driver.

Diana:

I do love our next scene where a demon has worked so hard on this presentation, and he is working very hard to look at the how to improve their demon conversion rates.

Diana:

And he's got numbers and graphs, and he is telling Crowley how they're gonna do this.

Diana:

And Crowley gives.

Diana:

No, no, no, he does not.

Diana:

No.

Diana:

And the other demon there gets a phone call and is to let them know that Sam is close.

Diana:

But Dean shows up and is like, by the way, he's dead.

Diana:

And I feel amazing.

Diana:

And Crowley is pissed because Dean has killed the Client, which also.

Diana:

Killed the Client was the name of a Dallas hardcore band for a while.

Diana:

And I was like, wait a minute.

Diana:

And Dean's like, yeah, dead douche.

Diana:

And Crowley is like, that's not the fucking deal I made.

Diana:

But Dean is completely unbothered.

Diana:

Does not care that this does not math for Crowley.

Diana:

And he's just going to walk away.

Diana:

And so Dean and.

Diana:

And Crowley tries to stop him and gets promptly decked by Dean.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Yeah, he does.

Diana:

In front of his other underlings.

Diana:

That's not cool.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And you see it right in front of his minions.

Liz:

It's not good.

Liz:

And so basically, though, they just.

Liz:

They break up.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yep.

Diana:

So he.

Diana:

Crowley calls him out.

Diana:

He's like, look, you don't know what you want.

Diana:

You don't know what the you are.

Diana:

If you're a demon, then Mindy should be dead.

Diana:

And otherwise, what are you?

Diana:

Human?

Diana:

You're a block.

Diana:

You know, you got your black eyes and you're working with me, so pick a bloody side.

Diana:

And Dean's like, or what?

Diana:

Because that's what he would do.

Diana:

And he's like, I'm not your bestie, and I'm not taking orders.

Diana:

And so that's when it is over.

Diana:

Crowley says, it's not me, it's you.

Diana:

Boom.

Diana:

So we have.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

And Hannah and Castiel are getting back on the road, and Sam has.

Diana:

Is at a motel where Crowley has found him.

Diana:

Because Crowley is like, nope, I'm gonna.

Diana:

I want to give Dean to you.

Diana:

He's bad for my business.

Diana:

He is your problem.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

And Sam just looks terrible, though.

Diana:

Sam does not look good.

Diana:

I mean, he did get, like, tortured for a while.

Liz:

He did.

Liz:

I mean, he looks like he got the beat out of him.

Diana:

And he's sad.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

And stressed.

Diana:

So Castiel wakes up in his car alone at the playground where they have the portal in the sandbox.

Diana:

And so he is very concerned because Hannah is gone.

Diana:

She has gone upstairs, and she is at the Heaven prison, going to Metatron, who's now also in a straight jacket.

Diana:

And she wants to know if there's any of Castiel's grace left anywhere.

Diana:

And he's like, yeah, yeah, you can pay for it.

Diana:

You just have to let me out.

Diana:

And he's like, you know, I've decided, you know, screw Earth.

Diana:

I'm gonna go off to another planet or galaxy.

Diana:

It's fine.

Diana:

You don't have to worry about me.

Diana:

Just let me go.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

And then Cast will be back at full power.

Diana:

No biggie.

Diana:

And then he, like, gets real gross, talking about how Hannah wants to be dominated by someone big and strong.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

He just does some real crappy.

Liz:

And she just knocks his head against the bars like we all want.

Diana:

Really good.

Diana:

It was good.

Diana:

Good.

Diana:

Good job, Hannah.

Diana:

And Castiel is like, no, don't make a deal with this guy.

Diana:

He is a liar.

Diana:

Always.

Diana:

And all his deals are terrible, and they end in blood and tears, and this is my life, so back the off.

Diana:

But so she does, and she's gonna walk away.

Diana:

And Metatron's gonna keep talking to Castiel, though, AKA Stiel, as he likes to call him.

Liz:

It's still a good burn.

Diana:

It is a good burn, as dorky as it is is.

Diana:

And he's like, Metatron's like, there is some of your grace left.

Diana:

And Cassio's like, nope, don't want it.

Diana:

I enjoy, you know, thinking about you locked up here till the end of time, and that's all that matters.

Diana:

And Metron's like, don't worry.

Diana:

I'm gonna get out.

Diana:

It may take for a millennial, but here's the sneak preview.

Diana:

When I'm out, everybody dies.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

So threatening, threatening, threatening.

Diana:

Yeah.

Liz:

And he also says, dead man walking, like, twice.

Liz:

And I just don't like that.

Liz:

Like, oh, man, it wasn't funny.

Liz:

It wasn't good the first time.

Liz:

He didn't wear it the second time.

Liz:

Metron.

Diana:

I know.

Diana:

It's just goading him.

Diana:

It's just annoying.

Diana:

So Dean is at a piano, drinking and thinking about what Crowley said about picking a side.

Liz:

And he's just cutting himself open with odt.

Diana:

Yeah, it's real weird.

Diana:

Cutting his hand and watching it heal over and over again.

Diana:

And Sam is like, finally shows up.

Diana:

And so Dean sends a bartender away.

Diana:

Why does the bartender listen to Sam?

Diana:

To Dean?

Diana:

Why?

Diana:

What.

Diana:

What power does Dean have to do, like, just go outside?

Diana:

It's very weird.

Diana:

And Dean tries to make small talk about Sam's shoulder sling, but doesn't really care.

Diana:

And it's about how Sam just can't let Dean go.

Diana:

And Crowley sold Dean out, but Dean has the Blade.

Diana:

And Sam's like, yeah, and we also know how to cure demons.

Diana:

Remember that?

Diana:

And Dean's like, yeah, it's a little Latin and a lot of blood, but if I wanted that, you know, if I wanted.

Diana:

If I wanted that, I would have.

Diana:

I wouldn't have failed.

Diana:

So Sam's like, well, I.

Diana:

That was Crowley, right?

Diana:

I mean, we can fix this.

Diana:

No big.

Diana:

But Dean's like, man, I don't know.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

I don't know.

Diana:

Because I'm just trying not to rip your throat out right now.

Diana:

So I don't know about walk out the door with you.

Diana:

I don't think that's gonna work.

Diana:

I don't know.

Liz:

Eat you?

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

You don't know really what I've done.

Diana:

So, yeah, that's fine.

Diana:

And Sam's trying to be sweet.

Diana:

He's like, you're my brother.

Diana:

I'll take you home.

Diana:

It's fine.

Diana:

And Dean just mocks him and takes a shot.

Diana:

It's really.

Liz:

And just.

Liz:

Just makes my stomach hurt.

Liz:

He's just drinking so much straight tequila.

Liz:

It's just painful.

Liz:

It's just.

Diana:

Ow.

Diana:

So it's a lot of heartburn.

Diana:

I don't know if he took his amaprozole this morning.

Liz:

I don't know, man.

Diana:

But Sam pulls out his fancy Sigil, handcuffs, a smoke bomb gets thrown through the window or gas.

Diana:

It's not like smoke.

Diana:

It's a.

Diana:

It's a tear gas bomb thing.

Diana:

And so Sam is choking and runs out the back door as Cole approaches and knocks Sam the out.

Liz:

God damn it.

Diana:

Of course, him.

Liz:

Poor Sam's head, man.

Liz:

Like, the amount of concussions on that poor boy.

Liz:

Noggin.

Diana:

No kidding.

Diana:

So Dean comes out to see what the going on.

Diana:

And basically now we get confirmation that Sam escaped because Cole let him escape to lead him to Dean, which.

Liz:

Or took advantage of him escaping to follow him yeah.

Diana:

Because it was almost too easy.

Diana:

But anyways.

Diana:

But Dean's like, I don't know who the you are.

Diana:

I don't know why you're after me.

Diana:

I don't know, man.

Diana:

t you remember in New York in:

Diana:

You gutted and murdered my dad.

Diana:

And Dean's like, ah, still don't ring a bell.

Diana:

I don't know what to tell you, man.

Diana:

I don't know what to tell you.

Diana:

And Cole's like, you let me live, and I've spent half my life training for this moment.

Diana:

I know you're good, but I'm better anyways.

Diana:

It's a lot.

Diana:

But Cole attacks him, and it goes so badly.

Diana:

This fight is kind of depressing, especially when you think about this.

Diana:

And Dean alludes to this afterwards.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

How, like, sad this is because Dean has, like, full demon strength now.

Diana:

And mark of Kane demon strength.

Diana:

He is kind of a bad.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

There's no way the Cole stands, like, no chance whatsoever.

Diana:

Zero.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

And they keep trying, and then Dean just.

Liz:

Just easily beats the.

Liz:

Out of him.

Diana:

And Haven gets to go, like.

Diana:

Dean gets to go like Princess Bride.

Diana:

Mock him about the.

Diana:

You know, my name is Inigo Montoya.

Diana:

You killed my father.

Diana:

Prepare to die.

Diana:

Like, it's.

Diana:

And.

Diana:

But what is interesting, when Cole does manage to cut Dean's face and sees it heal, and then he's.

Diana:

Then he's like, what are you?

Liz:

And so then he flips his eyes at him.

Liz:

He's like, you like me now?

Diana:

And he's got odt and he's about to kill Cole.

Diana:

Or he could have killed Cole, but he doesn't.

Diana:

And then Sam starts flinging holy water and has handcuffs out and puts him in a car.

Diana:

And Crowley's there, and Sam's giving ODT to Crowley while a handcuffed Dean is in the back seat of the car.

Diana:

And Crowley assures.

Diana:

So this is the payment the finders fee that Crowley wanted for handing over Dean.

Diana:

Was it.

Diana:

He wants ODT back because he doesn't want to get killed.

Liz:

And, you know, frankly, I think this may make sense right now.

Liz:

Like, based on, you know, what they know at this moment.

Liz:

It.

Liz:

Like, maybe it's time, like, you take a little break from your.

Liz:

Your weird little donkey jaw.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Reasonable.

Diana:

It's gross.

Liz:

It's nasty.

Liz:

You were just rubbing that into your hand.

Liz:

Like, it was just really, like, with the little molars.

Liz:

And, like, you didn't flop.

Liz:

Do you floss out?

Liz:

ET like, does, like, things get stuck in between the teeth.

Diana:

Whoa.

Diana:

So I didn't think of that.

Diana:

I just feel like it looks like it smells bad.

Diana:

Bad.

Liz:

It just clearly smells terrible.

Diana:

Oh.

Diana:

So, yeah.

Liz:

And Sam tries to bone.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

It's got to soak in, like, a bleach for, like, an extended period of time.

Diana:

Right.

Diana:

Something.

Liz:

Walking biohazard.

Liz:

Anyways, so.

Diana:

Too porous for this.

Liz:

But, yeah.

Diana:

So Sam's trying to threaten Crowley about me next time.

Diana:

And Crowley's just like, yeah, now.

Diana:

I, I.

Diana:

No, it's fine.

Diana:

Whatever.

Diana:

And so, yeah, And a.

Diana:

We have a very, very bloody coal in a very dark library rubbing blood over all of these books.

Diana:

That is in a very poorly lit library.

Diana:

What is happening?

Liz:

This poor librarian, you know, this is, like, her Wednesday afternoon.

Liz:

And she's just trying to get through.

Liz:

Like, her.

Liz:

She's just like, I just gotta get my day done.

Liz:

And then here comes Cole just, like, covered in blood, and she's just like the.

Liz:

I just.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Bloody man rubbing bloody hands all over books in a poorly lit library.

Diana:

Her eye.

Diana:

She's got eye strain.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

When she's just, like.

Liz:

She starts twitching, just being like, God damn, another one.

Diana:

Oh, my God.

Liz:

Like.

Liz:

And how many times a day does, like, someone come in there asking for demons?

Diana:

Right?

Liz:

And then, like, he gets a sad idea of, like, what happens when you actually look for books on demons in a library.

Diana:

Oh, my gosh.

Diana:

So ridiculous.

Diana:

But, yeah.

Diana:

And then we've got Crowley's at the bar being sad, looking at ODT and at cute pictures of him and Dean at the bar together.

Liz:

And there's some great photographs.

Diana:

There are.

Diana:

And hey, Lonely Girl is playing on the radio while two demons watch him face weird and sad.

Diana:

And Sam is driving away with Dean.

Diana:

And he is pissed because baby is dirty and not just like, oh, she got out.

Diana:

It rained on her.

Diana:

It's got, like, demon Dean, like, left trash and gunk inside the car.

Liz:

What the.

Diana:

Is this rude?

Diana:

He said it's just a car, sir.

Diana:

Excuse me?

Liz:

That's how.

Liz:

That's how you know how far gone he is.

Diana:

Oh.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

And Sam's like, oh, but you took mercy on Cole.

Diana:

That was, you know, very human of you.

Diana:

Blah, blah.

Diana:

And Dean's like, are you kidding me?

Diana:

That wasn't mercy.

Diana:

I whipped him like a dog.

Diana:

And now he has to live with the fact that he couldn't kill me.

Diana:

And then.

Diana:

And what I'm gonna do to you ain't gonna be mercy either.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

His ego is so huge right now, and he's just being super creepy.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

So.

Diana:

Oh.

Diana:

All Right.

Diana:

Well, I have a couple cast notes that I will share with you all tonight.

Host:

Casting couch is the casting couch.

Host:

Were they on that show that time with that guy?

Diana:

La la la la la la la.

Liz:

La la la la.

Diana:

Our first is our favorite.

Diana:

Lester was played by David Nicholl.

Diana:

He's been in episodes of Call.

Diana:

He was episodes of Call of the Wild, Stargate, SG1, Fringe, Once Upon a Time, and Kung Fu and some other things.

Diana:

He was a medical examiner in Chupacabra Versus the Alamo.

Diana:

He was a science teacher in Tomorrowland and Anatoly in Arrow, which is a reoccurring character.

Diana:

He's been like over three dozen episodes of Arrow.

Diana:

Our bouncer who got in the fight with I Got Beat up by Dean was played by Brad Kelly.

Diana:

He actually does a lot of stunt work.

Diana:

That's what most of his credits are for the movie.

Diana:

Godzilla, Watchmen, iRobot and War for Planet of the Apes are some of his big credits as far as doing stunt work.

Diana:

Our tattooed man, who happened to be the one that Mindy was having her tris with, was played by Robert Salvador, who was Detective Kavanaugh in I Zombie over two dozen episodes.

Diana:

So there we go.

Liz:

Very cool.

Diana:

Yep.

Diana:

So you said you call this douche, Dean, Most of this episode?

Liz:

Yeah.

Liz:

I mean, I think we're.

Liz:

We're at, like, peak douche.

Liz:

You know, it's.

Liz:

It's pretty.

Liz:

He's tipped the douche meter, like, pretty, pretty far.

Diana:

The douche meter.

Diana:

The douche meter might be breaking.

Liz:

I think he may have broken the douche meter.

Diana:

It's pretty.

Diana:

It's pretty epically douchey.

Diana:

Yeah.

Diana:

I mean, that's the biggest thing.

Diana:

I think that the dynamic between Hannah and Castiel is interesting, but it's gonna get old unless something kind of happens.

Liz:

Well, it's kind of hard when you're.

Liz:

They're characters that are supposed to be junkless, but they're not.

Liz:

And then, you know, like.

Liz:

And then it's confusing of how much humanity they really got because they fell.

Liz:

But now the doors to heaven are back open, so now everything is fine.

Diana:

Yeah, I guess.

Liz:

And it hasn't really been explained, like, just, like, what's happened now.

Diana:

Yeah, no, I can.

Diana:

I can see that.

Diana:

It's kind of.

Diana:

Because I guess.

Diana:

And Castiel especially has had so much history being a human, like, being very human not terribly long ago, because he.

Diana:

You know, and then she's definitely newer to it, but I don't know.

Diana:

So that dynamic is just kind of an odd one.

Diana:

I'm not sure.

Diana:

Where they're going with that.

Diana:

But I will say, I.

Diana:

I kind of like this, Sam.

Diana:

I really would love to know when.

Liz:

He gets the crappy dad.

Diana:

Well, no, I like that he's like.

Diana:

No, I hate that part.

Diana:

I like that he's, like, focused and committed.

Diana:

He's not wishy washy because sometimes he's a little wishy washy.

Diana:

And then I am like, I really want to understand what's going on with Cole.

Liz:

Cole needs therapy.

Diana:

Well, I mean, I knew that part.

Diana:

That part's a given.

Diana:

I'm talking about the arrest, like, in general, like, as a viewer, like, did Dean just kill his dad?

Diana:

t he wouldn't do that back in:

Diana:

Just go kill a dude.

Diana:

So there had to be a reason.

Diana:

So is dad a monster, or is somebody pretending to be Dean?

Diana:

And with Cole's head, like, I want to know.

Liz:

Yeah, there's a lot of possibilities.

Liz:

Dean's had a life, man.

Liz:

Like, he's done a lot of.

Diana:

I'm not doing well waiting on that.

Diana:

That storyline.

Diana:

Yeah, that's my annoyance right now.

Diana:

I also feel kind of bad for Cole.

Liz:

Yeah.

Diana:

Like you said, he just really needs therapy.

Liz:

He needs therapy.

Liz:

He needs to learn that vengeance is, you know, vengeance and revenge or they're.

Liz:

They're not good.

Liz:

They're not going to fill up that hole in your heart, Cole.

Liz:

They're just not.

Liz:

The only way you're going to do that is to work through your trauma.

Liz:

And that's going to take some process and some work and some growth.

Diana:

This is true.

Diana:

Yes.

Liz:

Or you can just, you know, drink a bunch.

Diana:

I mean, he might do better with that than he.

Diana:

Anything else he's doing right now.

Diana:

That's okay.

Diana:

So.

Liz:

Yeah, So.

Liz:

I don't know.

Liz:

I mean, I'm.

Liz:

I'm sad that Crowley and Dean have broken up.

Liz:

You know, I do and do enjoy their relationship, but.

Liz:

So I think it is time that Daddy took ODT away.

Diana:

Yeah, I think you're probably correct on that.

Liz:

I mean, really, in episode two, so who knows?

Diana:

Oh, I know we got plenty to go this season, that's for sure.

Diana:

So I'm interested to see where it's gonna go.

Diana:

I'm hopeful that we don't have a full season of Douchey Demon Dean.

Liz:

Yeah, I think that would probably.

Liz:

If that was a line that they chose to do, I think that could get old pretty fast.

Diana:

I would.

Diana:

I would expect degree.

Diana:

But yeah.

Liz:

All right.

Liz:

I think on that note.

Diana:

Cheers, Jerk.

Diana:

Cheers.

Diana:

Devil's Trap podcast is a.

Diana:

Don't get a production Meow.

Host:

Devil's Trap Podcast is part of the Ship It Studio Podcast Network.

Host:

Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Devil's Trap Podcast.

Host:

You can follow us on Instagram at Double Trapped Podcast, Twitter at Devilstrap Pod, or you can email us@devilstrapilstrappodcast.com don't forget to subscribe, leave reviews and share with all your friends.

Host:

We're at all your favorite podcast outlets and@devils Trappodcast.com I'm Babe.

Host:

Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.

Diana:

Going up to the spirit in the skies that's where I'm going to go when I die When I die and they lay me I'm going to go into the place I.

Liz:

Sa.

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About the Podcast

Devil's Trap: A Supernatural Podcast
A Supernatural fan show where longtime fan Liz “trapped” Diana, into watching for the first time. Come along for a spoiler free watch with crafty urban fantasy enthusiasts.
We're going back to the beginning of the road and watching Supernatural from the beginning. For your host Liz, it's probably her fifth time through. For your other host Diana, it's her first. She claims she was scared. Naturally as a supportive friend, Liz will attempt to exploit this fear as much as possible. We also dive into the spooky spook in the show in whatever way we want - occult, folklore, true crime, shopping, GAME SHOWS?

Watch the videos on you tube @devilstrappodcast
Follow us on Twitter at @DevilsTrapPod
Follow us on Instagram at @DevilsTrapPodcast

About your hosts

Elizabeth Waddell

Profile picture for Elizabeth Waddell
Liz, the maker of the Lore is a ne'er-do-well Texan, you can find her in the spooky places.

Diana Cox

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Diana is watching Supernatural for the first time and loving every minute. Diana lives in Dallas, TX and spends her time seeing/making music, going to car shows, drinking, and caring for 2 large dogs (+ the husband/Babe).